Vermont Law (full-ride) vs. GW sticker Forum

[FSK]

Please don't go to GW at sticker, as a current student. Your life is worth living. Don't ruin it.

[Johann]

id do vermont full ride. you might not get your dream job but being fluent in chinese should get you something you want. plus worst case scenario is you now have a free jd.

[rickgrimes69]

wow thanks guys.. hopefully I can get into gtown, even part-time, and not look back.

Even GULC doesn't give you a great shot at your goals, fyi. Not saying it's impossible, but if this is all you're interested in doing as a lawyer, you may want to give a policy related job serious thought.

Going to law school so you can "work for the E.P.A. or D.O.E. as an attorney, specifically in a China-related capacity" is like joining the air force because you want to be an astronaut.

Normally I'd agree with this, but are there really a lot of people gunning for such a niche job? The fact that OP has a concrete goal in mind will help him hit the ground running, and I would imagine his Chinese fluency will be a bonus to firms.

[6lehderjets]

vermont is one of the worst law schools in the country, possibly the world

usnwr "specialty rankings" are a device to help schools promote themselves in exchange for establishing the primacy of usnwr rankings

make no mistake about it – only half of vermont law school grads actually find full-time legal jobs within 9 months of graduation

a shocking 29% are underemployed

if you want prestigious pi, aim for hys, nyu, berkeley

Do you even have any original ideas to provide? You just spew off LST stats in every choosing a law school for thread.

[TheSpanishMain]

wow thanks guys.. hopefully I can get into gtown, even part-time, and not look back.

Even GULC doesn't give you a great shot at your goals, fyi. Not saying it's impossible, but if this is all you're interested in doing as a lawyer, you may want to give a policy related job serious thought.

Going to law school so you can "work for the E.P.A. or D.O.E. as an attorney, specifically in a China-related capacity" is like joining the air force because you want to be an astronaut.

Normally I'd agree with this, but are there really a lot of people gunning for such a niche job? The fact that OP has a concrete goal in mind will help him hit the ground running, and I would imagine his Chinese fluency will be a bonus to firms.

I was thinking that it being such a niche job means that there are probably only a handful of government billets that exist. Combine that with there being more than enough people from good schools interested in working for the federal government generally (they may not be gunning for his specific interest, but they'll certainly apply if they see it open) and you come to the conclusion that OP would probably bust.

[dardardelight]

Well the goal is to land a law clerk / honors program position at EPA during my second summer of law school, and I trust myself to fulfill it, even at a school treading water hard like VLS. The positions are out there, and I doubt they're as competitive as doj honors or fellowships at state.

I do have a master's with a good deal of coursework on energy/envi, am fluent in a language of a country that's uber important for EPA, and I did relevant work at a think tank steps away from the EPA.

This isn't just a blind goal, and nobody has really convinced me not to take VLS on full scholly -- just sayin

[Nomo]

Do you have a realistic backup plan? Something other than biglaw or environmental work? Will you be happy with that backup plan.

If you don't, then neither choice is defensible. If you do, then depending on what that backup plan is, Vermont on a full-ride might be a fine option.

[kjartan]

vermont is one of the worst law schools in the country, possibly the world

usnwr "specialty rankings" are a device to help schools promote themselves in exchange for establishing the primacy of usnwr rankings

make no mistake about it – only half of vermont law school grads actually find full-time legal jobs within 9 months of graduation

a shocking 29% are underemployed

if you want prestigious pi, aim for hys, nyu, berkeley

lol no- I'm not saying anyone should go to VLS, but this is stupid hyperbole.

[dardardelight]

the back-up plan would be doing ngo work in China or like the NRDC, env def. fund -- just gruntwork policy stuff I guess, but that is pretty interesting ...

[03152016]

vermont is one of the worst law schools in the country, possibly the world

usnwr "specialty rankings" are a device to help schools promote themselves in exchange for establishing the primacy of usnwr rankings

make no mistake about it – only half of vermont law school grads actually find full-time legal jobs within 9 months of graduation

a shocking 29% are underemployed

if you want prestigious pi, aim for hys, nyu, berkeley

lol no- I'm not saying anyone should go to VLS, but this is stupid hyperbole.

how is it hyperbole you dumb fuck
coinflip chance of becoming a lawyer
stop being a shill

[BigZuck]

Just lol@ "my lsat is higher, therefore I will get better grades." All it takes is one class where you don't "click" with the professor, miss the proximate cause issue in the torts hypo, don't fully understand asportation, get the flu the day before, have a family member die the morning of, have a prof that really and truly subscribes to the staircase method, whatever, and you go from top 5 in your class to just another boned top 30% bro. The margin of error is so incredibly razor thin, it would be extremely stupid to expect to do that amazingly well in law school going in, even at a trash school like Vermont.

Just don't go to law school, you're not mature enough yet IMO

[dardardelight]

edit

[kjartan]

how is it hyperbole you dumb fuck
coinflip chance of becoming a lawyer
stop being a shill

You're not very smart, Brut. And I'm definitely not shilling VLS. I don't think he should go. But calling it one of the worst law schools in the US, let alone the world, is fucking retarded.

[northwood]

Is the scholarship guaranteed for all 3 years, or does it come with stipulations? If so what are they?

[shifty_eyed]

edit

lol I saw this. What about the kids from Vermont whose moms/dads run small law firms and just need a JD to be employed? Don't underestimate the # of those that make up the employed at a school like Vermont, even if you do have an LSAT that's 3 points higher than theirs.

[03152016]

how is it hyperbole you dumb fuck
coinflip chance of becoming a lawyer
stop being a shill

You're not very smart, Brut. And I'm definitely not shilling VLS. I don't think he should go. But calling it one of the worst law schools in the US, let alone the world, is fucking retarded.

yes you definitely made a convincing point there
despite vls having some of the worst employment outcomes in the country, they're definitely not one of the worst law schools!
just look at their specialty rankings!

jesus go back to your retarded shitpoasting in the lounge and stop fucking up the on-topics with your nonsense

[kjartan]

how is it hyperbole you dumb fuck
coinflip chance of becoming a lawyer
stop being a shill

You're not very smart, Brut. And I'm definitely not shilling VLS. I don't think he should go. But calling it one of the worst law schools in the US, let alone the world, is fucking retarded.

yes you definitely made a convincing point there
despite vls having some of the worst employment outcomes in the country, they're definitely not one of the worst law schools!
just look at their specialty rankings!

jesus go back to your retarded shitpoasting in the lounge and stop fucking up the on-topics with your nonsense

You don't really get nuance, do you?

[BigZuck]

how is it hyperbole you dumb fuck
coinflip chance of becoming a lawyer
stop being a shill

You're not very smart, Brut. And I'm definitely not shilling VLS. I don't think he should go. But calling it one of the worst law schools in the US, let alone the world, is fucking retarded.

To be fair, it does seem to be the CUNY of "environmental" law schools. 147 25th, 2% big law/clerkships combined with 25% "PI" (lol), average student debt looks to be about 150K. It's garbage. Also, isn't it about to be shut down or something?

[03152016]

non-response

QED

[kjartan]

non-response

QED

Let me spell this out for you. Under no circumstances should OP go to VLS. Not because it is maybe one of the worst law schools in the world (lol where do you come up with this shit), but because it is a third tier law school and has shitty employment outcomes.

[dardardelight]

Thanks everyone for the input. My thinking is that I'm going to need to bust my ass very hard at either school. At GW, the competition is much greater based on sheer numbers and intellect and it would be much harder for me to land top10% there than at vermont. (not knocking vls, just speaking truth)

But vermont does give me a crapload of resources that I'd need in this area. Yes, I'm probably going to learn less in torts/administrative law/ contracts, etc. But I'd have the tools around me to get the epa clerkship, I'd say.

[TheSpanishMain]

non-response

QED

Let me spell this out for you. Under no circumstances should OP go to VLS. Not because it is maybe one of the worst law schools in the world (lol where do you come up with this shit), but because it is a third tier law school and has shitty employment outcomes.

I mean, yeah, it's hyperbole (especially when we include "the world". I'm sure the Pyongyang School of Juche Law has an abysmal BL/FC rate) but I'm not sure why it riles you so much.

But vermont does give me a crapload of resources that I'd need in this area. Yes, I'm probably going to learn less in torts/administrative law/ contracts, etc. But I'd have the tools around me to get the epa clerkship, I'd say.

Do whatever you want, obviously. But do you think the 29% unemployed of VLS grads, a school known for environmental stuff, just never thought to apply to the EPA? Federal jobs are competitive, and you're going to be competing with people from good schools for them. They may not all have your super specific interests, but there are plenty of people who want to do environmental stuff in general who are going to apply to the same openings you are.

No one is saying it's impossible, just that you're being very blase about some very long odds.

[03152016]

@kj

you do realize that law school is a riskier proposition in the U.S. than in most other parts of the world, don't you?

tuition rates and financing/subsidization, status of law school as a separate professional school, saturation of the job market, average debt load

$270,000 debt-financed cost of attendance for a 50/50 shot at becoming a lawyer earning $45,000 a year
AFTER a separate (probably expensive) debt-financed UG degree

you think that's the status quo around the world?
explain

[dardardelight]

thanks.. yeah I of course realized that a bunch of people would be applying to the same position. That goes for GW as well. The thing is, the people reviewing my application to a position at EPA aren't going to immediately throw the app away if they see VLS, because they know it's rep for what it's known for. If I went to university of detroit, mercy on the other hand, they'd prob not give the app a second look.

I'd need to be one of the top student's for sure-- but I'd rather take top 10% at vls than top 45% at GW. I'd have a proven track record for passion in the field too. Is there any way I can find out the percentage of acceptances vs denials for each school and their applicants for EPA / DOE / FERC? I'd be curious to measure those at vls against like washu/gw, t 30's.

[dardardelight]

BRUT, that's why I want to go to school for free (for the sake of my parents) and end up in the same place as if I were to pay sticker at a better school.