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If they offer me close to full scholarship should I consider this?

I'm extremely against the idea of debt.

3.1 / 156

Obviously I'm retaking... Scored a 163 yesterday... so that's looking up... really was a 164 if I didn't misbubble twice..

I'm also a veteran so if they get close to full scholarship or even like halfway my GI Bill would pick up the rest.

I dont know.. I'm entertaining the idea...

I've applied Early Decision to the University of Minnesota. I've also applied to Miami, Cardozo, Brooklyn, and Chicago Kent.

I'd love to end up at Fordham if I could. Depending on my December score I'll see if Georgetown, Northwestern, and Cornell are possibilities, but probably not.

I really need to score well in December. I've noticed my scores have been improving slightly and I think its because I'm not so stressed out about the exam. I take two PTS a week and that's it. No drilling or anything like that. More nuanced stuff. I think I've gone through almost all the material also.

What do you all think?

Realistically I see myself scoring between 159-163 on test day in December. I'd love to do better, but yeah...

I need advice

Really want to end up in a metropolitan area... NYC, Miami, Chicago... not really familiar with California. DC would be cool.

Do not attend under any circumstances

Especially if you want to end up in a major metro

Incidentally bc of your GPA you're not going to get into a school that gives you a halfway decent shot at all of those areas

Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.

There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

Quinnipiac isn't really going to help you out, though, unless you're gunning for one of the 5 jobs in CONNECTICUT LAW.

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.


There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

Your logic has gone wrong where you assume you will get a job with a degree from those schools. You could waste three years and not ever become a lawyer. What kind of work do you want to do?

louierodriguez wrote: am I wrong?

Your problem is that you assume you will get a job. It is absolutely brutal out there. Go look on ATL and read the recent article about the Georgetown grad who is unemployed and living on food stamps.

Most of the schools on your list give you about a 50% shot of becoming a lawyer. Even if you are lucky enough to snag a legal job, it will likely pay 40-60k and you will be living in a major metro area with a high cost of living.

baal hadad wrote:Do not attend under any circumstances

Especially if you want to end up in a major metro

Incidentally bc of your GPA you're not going to get into a school that gives you a halfway decent shot at all of those areas

False, the GPA will not preven him from getting into a school that can land him in a good area. I had a 2.79 and was in at NU and several other schools (no other T14 though). That LSAT score is the problem. If you want a good chance at actually getting into a shcool that can send you where you want to go you need to spend as much time as possible studying. A 3.1 requires you to score at least in the high 160s but more likely the 170s.

DO NOT GO TO QUINNIPIAC.

Winston1984 wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.


There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

Your logic has gone wrong where you assume you will get a job with a degree from those schools. You could waste three years and not ever become a lawyer. What kind of work do you want to do?

I'm not assuming I will automatically get a job. I'm also not assuming I will not get a job. You work hard, do your best, and you end up with what you end up with. That's all you can do. I'm interested in Intellectual Property Law. So maybe an IP firm. Cardozo has a great program. I'll flirt with the idea of being a JAG, but I'm not 100% on it. There's a lot of public interest stuff that I think I'd be interested in. I'm keeping my options open.

louierodriguez wrote:

Winston1984 wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.


There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

Your logic has gone wrong where you assume you will get a job with a degree from those schools. You could waste three years and not ever become a lawyer. What kind of work do you want to do?

I'm not assuming I will automatically get a job. I'm also not assuming I will not get a job. You work hard, do your best, and you end up with what you end up with. That's all you can do. I'm interested in Intellectual Property Law. So maybe an IP firm. Cardozo has a great program. I'll flirt with the idea of being a JAG, but I'm not 100% on it. There's a lot of public interest stuff that I think I'd be interested in. I'm keeping my options open.

Do you have at least a STEM UG degree?

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.

There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

I'm thinking more of Minnesota. IIRC you're from Miami, so I get UMiami. NYC is supposed to be not sensitive to ties, so whatever there (although I still wouldn't go any lower than Fordham, even for free.) But LJL at "If I go to American, I can find a job in DC." and "I'm flirting with being a JAG." Go look at JAG selection rates. I was talking the other day to a Navy JAG who had to apply multiple times...from Harvard. And American's employment rate + DC market = giant turd.

I'm not trying to dump on you. It just sounds like a lot of this is you trying to convince yourself of what you know isn't true, with a lot of cliches about "It is what you make it" and all that nonsense about TLS insisting everyone go to a T14. There is a big difference between a decent non-T14 like WUSTL or UCLA and a toilet like Quinnipiac with a 35% employment score. C'mon man. You know all this already.

Are you at least at 100% on the Post 9/11?

TheSpanishMain wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Louie, what is going on, man? You've been around here long enough to know how regional a lot of those schools are. You can't have ties anywhere. And write toilets in NYC off completely.

A lot of those schools are regional... but lets say I go to Cardozo for instance... the region is NYC... I'll find a job in NYC... thats perfect. Where has my logic gone wrong?

Not everyone is getting into a T14. I wish more than anything I was one of those individuals, but its likely not going to happen. I can't just say, oh well, I guess law school isn't for me... no... thats stupid...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have gone to T2 T3 and even T4's who have found plenty of success.

There is this idea that circulates around TLS that you have to go to a T14. That's almost like saying in order to be successful you have had to have been born to a successful family.

If I go to Miami... I can find a job in Miami.
If I go to Brooklyn, Cardozo, Fordham... I can find a job in NYC
If I go to Kent, Loyola, Depaul I can find a job in Chicago
If I go to American I can find a job in DC

am I wrong?

trust me... I want to go to a T14 and I know how important that is... but the wisdom has to be better than something like... "do not attend under any circumstances" or "write toilets in NYC off completely."

I have to work with what I got. and what I got atm is a 3.1 and a 156 / retake

I'm thinking more of Minnesota. IIRC you're from Miami, so I get UMiami. NYC is supposed to be not sensitive to ties, so whatever there (although I still wouldn't go any lower than Fordham, even for free.) But LJL at "If I go to American, I can find a job in DC." and "I'm flirting with being a JAG." Go look at JAG selection rates. I was talking the other day to a Navy JAG who had to apply multiple times...from Harvard. And American's employment rate + DC market = giant turd.

I'm not trying to dump on you. It just sounds like a lot of this is you trying to convince yourself of what you know isn't true, with a lot of cliches about "It is what you make it" and all that nonsense about TLS insisting everyone go to a T14. There is a big difference between a decent non-T14 like WUSTL or UCLA and a toilet like Quinnipiac with a 35% employment score. C'mon man. You know all this already.

Are you at least at 100% on the Post 9/11?

80% :/

but I plan on living and practicing where ever I go to law school... so if I end up at Lewis and Clark... it looks like Oregon will be my new home... It's not like I'd go to Brooklyn to practice in Ft. Lauderdale.

I know the reality of the situation of a lot of these schools, but I'm going to have to make the best of it... I'm going to have to live by those cliches... it might literally be my only option depending on my December score.

I'm just throwing the idea of being a JAG out there... but I'd imagine that having already served would mean something to a JAG recruiter.. maybe not... but it should..

It helps, but it doesn't mean you are "in." Quinnipiac certainly won't give you a boost.

Icculus wrote:

baal hadad wrote:Do not attend under any circumstances

Especially if you want to end up in a major metro

Incidentally bc of your GPA you're not going to get into a school that gives you a halfway decent shot at all of those areas

False, the GPA will not preven him from getting into a school that can land him in a good area. I had a 2.79 and was in at NU and several other schools (no other T14 though). That LSAT score is the problem. If you want a good chance at actually getting into a shcool that can send you where you want to go you need to spend as much time as possible studying. A 3.1 requires you to score at least in the high 160s but more likely the 170s.

DO NOT GO TO QUINNIPIAC.

Nu or GULC won't give him a dece shot at Chi AND NYC AND DC AND miami

..

louierodriguez wrote:
80% :/

but I plan on living and practicing where ever I go to law school... so if I end up at Lewis and Clark... it looks like Oregon will be my new home... It's not like I'd go to Brooklyn to practice in Ft. Lauderdale.

I know the reality of the situation of a lot of these schools, but I'm going to have to make the best of it... I'm going to have to live by those cliches... it might literally be my only option depending on my December score.

I'm just throwing the idea of being a JAG out there... but I'd imagine that having already served would mean something to a JAG recruiter.. maybe not... but it should..

So no YRP for you, which means retaking is even more crucial for scholarship money. And again, I know you know this but the regional factor doesn't just mean the school only places in that region. It means the local legal scene is going to give preferential treatment to locals. Showing up as a random Floridian to L&C and expecting to find legal work in Oregon is pretty . You can tell yourself that you'd be the exception who "makes the most of it" and works harder than everyone else, and maybe that's even true, but it's way more likely that you'd be setting yourself up to fail.

You don't HAVE to live by something you know is incorrect or silly. You can retake. You can wait another year. Shit, if you're still in the reserves, try to volunteer for a mobilization to get your eligibility up to 100%.

Finally, I'm not saying you definitely couldn't go JAG. I'm saying you can't view it as some kind of legal job safety net. It's not like, "Well, I didn't get a decent job out of Quinnipiac, so I guess I'll just go be a Navy JAG." It's ridiculously competitive, and there are plenty of other applicants with prior service and JDs from good schools.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:
80% :/

but I plan on living and practicing where ever I go to law school... so if I end up at Lewis and Clark... it looks like Oregon will be my new home... It's not like I'd go to Brooklyn to practice in Ft. Lauderdale.

I know the reality of the situation of a lot of these schools, but I'm going to have to make the best of it... I'm going to have to live by those cliches... it might literally be my only option depending on my December score.

I'm just throwing the idea of being a JAG out there... but I'd imagine that having already served would mean something to a JAG recruiter.. maybe not... but it should..

So no YRP for you, which means retaking is even more crucial for scholarship money. And again, I know you know this but the regional factor doesn't just mean the school only places in that region. It means the local legal scene is going to give preferential treatment to locals. Showing up as a random Floridian to L&C and expecting to find legal work in Oregon is pretty . You can tell yourself that you'd be the exception who "makes the most of it" and works harder than everyone else, and maybe that's even true, but it's way more likely that you'd be setting yourself up to fail.

You don't HAVE to live by something you know is incorrect or silly. You can retake. You can wait another year. Shit, if you're still in the reserves, try to volunteer for a mobilization to get your eligibility up to 100%.

Finally, I'm not saying you definitely couldn't go JAG. I'm saying you can't view it as some kind of legal job safety net. It's not like, "Well, I didn't get a decent job out of Quinnipiac, so I guess I'll just go be a Navy JAG." It's ridiculously competitive, and there are plenty of other applicants with prior service and JDs from good schools.

Yeah, I believe it. I don't think of being a JAG in those terms. From what I've heard about Navy JAG's is that its usually a decision that is made during 1L year, so you have to be pretty committed. I heard the Air Force and Army are more leinient about when you decide to make that decision though, regardless I'm not really interested in those two branches. But yeah, If I was to be a JAG I'd treat it like a golden opportunity.

I really have no idea what's in store for me though.

Main,

You're starting to make me think Miami is the best choice for me.

It probably is unless I magically get into a T25

You really have to pull your ED Minnesota app if it is binding. MN is worse for your stated goals than Cardozo would be. If you have a GI bill, then just work to pull a t-14. Even Fordham for your goals wouldn't be that bad if the military pays all of it, and you understand that certain jobs are unlikely. If your score keeps going up then it's short sighted to say you can't keep going up.

louierodriguez wrote:Main,

You're starting to make me think Miami is the best choice for me.

It probably is unless I magically get into a T25

It probably is, if you want to stay in Miami, aren't Big Law or bust, and can combine GI Bill + scholarship to make it free.

louierodriguez wrote: It probably is unless I magically get into a T25 It probably is unless I get into a T25 at a price worth paying

Fixed that for you. "T25" is a weird distinction, but whatever.

Good luck, duder. I hope you know I'm not trying to be a downer or give you shit just for the sake of it. I'm trying to keep you from talking yourself into making a horrible decision.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:Main,

You're starting to make me think Miami is the best choice for me.

It probably is unless I magically get into a T25

It probably is, if you want to stay in Miami, aren't Big Law or bust, and can combine GI Bill + scholarship to make it free.

louierodriguez wrote: It probably is unless I magically get into a T25 It probably is unless I get into a T25 at a price worth paying

Fixed that for you. "T25" is a weird distinction, but whatever.

Good luck, duder. I hope you know I'm not trying to be a downer or give you shit just for the sake of it. I'm trying to keep you from talking yourself into making a horrible decision.

Trust me... I appreciate it. I think Quinnipiac isn't going to be an option after all this lol. I may have to make another thread like this though if I actually do get a full scholarship...

louierodriguez wrote:You really have to pull your ED Minnesota app if it is binding. MN is worse for your stated goals than Cardozo would be. If you have a GI bill, then just work to pull a t-14. Even Fordham for your goals wouldn't be that bad if the military pays all of it, and you understand that certain jobs are unlikely. If your score keeps going up then it's short sighted to say you can't keep going up.

Minnesota is the best thing I got going for me at the moment. If I actually do get in... I'm setting up camp in Minneapolis and I'm never leaving. I would love it there.

louierodriguez wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

louierodriguez wrote:Main,

You're starting to make me think Miami is the best choice for me.

It probably is unless I magically get into a T25

It probably is, if you want to stay in Miami, aren't Big Law or bust, and can combine GI Bill + scholarship to make it free.

louierodriguez wrote: It probably is unless I magically get into a T25 It probably is unless I get into a T25 at a price worth paying

Fixed that for you. "T25" is a weird distinction, but whatever.

Good luck, duder. I hope you know I'm not trying to be a downer or give you shit just for the sake of it. I'm trying to keep you from talking yourself into making a horrible decision.

Trust me... I appreciate it. I think Quinnipiac isn't going to be an option after all this lol. I may have to make another thread like this though if I actually do get a full scholarship...

louierodriguez wrote:You really have to pull your ED Minnesota app if it is binding. MN is worse for your stated goals than Cardozo would be. If you have a GI bill, then just work to pull a t-14. Even Fordham for your goals wouldn't be that bad if the military pays all of it, and you understand that certain jobs are unlikely. If your score keeps going up then it's short sighted to say you can't keep going up.

Minnesota is the best thing I got going for me at the moment. If I actually do get in... I'm setting up camp in Minneapolis and I'm never leaving. I would love it there.

I didn't realize that was a sufficiently large to constitute a big metropolitan area, but if it's free except the cost of living, it could be worse.

The Twin Cities are definitely a large metropolitan area. U of MN sounds a little shaky, though (it's an insular market served by 4 law schools).

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The Twin Cities are definitely a large metropolitan area. U of MN sounds a little shaky, though (it's an insular market served by 4 law schools).

+1

The school definitely doesn't place as well as it's rank would suggest. It is a bona fide regional that won't get you as far west as MKE (although I'm not sure how much of that is self-selection).

Regardless, Minneapolis is a great place (I'm not so sold on St. Paul) but OP if you're from Miami and have never experienced a MN winter, I wouldn't be so sure about staying just yet. I'm a northerner through and through, but these last few winters have been especially brutal and even I'm looking for escape routes to warmer climates.

Also, after going to a small liberal arts UG, my general rule of thumb is don't go to a school that most people won't know how to pronounce. This applies for Quinnipiac.

Best of luck

Connecticut is very competitive for the few jobs that are available there. You have a lot of people that are from there, attend t-14 schools, and try to get back. You also have UConn, which isn't good but less bad than Quinnipiac.