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T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:35 pm
by lapata
Hi all,
Let me start with stats: 171, 3.54 from UChicago, low income, 1st gen, 3 yr we in field I want to ultimately pursue (education), but big law and clerking are immediate post grad goals. Not retaking or anything (studying takes too much from teaching full time and fiance, plus 171 is above my pt average).
This is a bit premature, but projecting:
UChicago (sticker)
UMich ($)
WUSTL ($$$ - admitted today)
Ohio State (likely full, but maybe presumptuous)
Fwiw, 2l friend at UPenn says UMich and 1l friend at Austin says WUSTL (she's a 'take the money' type). Would really love to hear what ya'll think!
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:42 pm
by romothesavior
Depends on the actual dollar figures, but I'd say U Chicago is out in front. I've been out of the admissions cycle game for a while, so I can't really give you any estimates, but if Michigan offers you a good chunk of money, then I might lean Michigan. WUSTL should only be considered if its full sticker vs. full ride, and even then... not sure I'd pass on Chicago.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:01 pm
by Doritos
Does the $$$ mean full ride at WUSTL? Man, I'd be inclined to minimize dat debt. Sticker debt sucks big time even if you get a fancy clerkship and biglaw afterwards. If you can do UMich for like 100k or so of it I'd go there. How much is UChicago sticker? Like 250k?
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:08 pm
by BigZuck
We don't need to do this on October 30th, it's just wheel spinning without real options. Come back when you have all your chickens, IMO
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:25 pm
by lapata
Doritos wrote:Does the $$$ mean full ride at WUSTL? Man, I'd be inclined to minimize dat debt. Sticker debt sucks big time even if you get a fancy clerkship and biglaw afterwards. If you can do UMich for like 100k or so of it I'd go there. How much is UChicago sticker? Like 250k?
Thanks so far. I'm guessing WUSTL will be full ride (again, possibly hubris). I'm also not super type a in my career goals - comfortable stable family life is more important than crazy prestigious clerkships, though of course prestigious positions leads to that stability; its all about balance.
Also, UMich is like 2 hours from my immediate family (NW Ohio). If i get 100k there, i'd do a goddamn backflip, as it hits that sweet spot of education/prospects/low debt/family. But i just cant shake the devils on each shoulder: Elite education beats all, even money (UChicago) vs Free is free (WUSTL).
Three fundamental Midwest principles (balance/education/thrift) drawn into direct conflict.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:28 pm
by lapata
BigZuck wrote:We don't need to do this on October 30th, it's just wheel spinning without real options. Come back when you have all your chickens, IMO
Oh it's 100% wheel spinning. No arguments there! Just trying to set some general parameters and thoughts.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:42 pm
by BigZuck
If by education you mean law professor then the only option that remotely makes sense is Chicago and even that doesn't make sense. You would need great grades and a great clerkship and that is all very remote. Also boomer profs don't retire and are immortal so there's not a ton of demand. In general I think pursuing a career in academia is a bad move but if you're going to do it then do it in a field where you can at least get funded and not go 300k in debt IMO.
If you want to be a big law drone like everyone else then Chicago is a good school for that. WUSTL is a pretty good school and I can get trying to hedge by taking less debt (that's what I did when I passed on the T14) but if you really want big law then I'd lean toward the T14.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:47 pm
by MarkfromWI
Any reason you're not considering NU?
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:09 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
BigZuck wrote:We don't need to do this on October 30th, it's just wheel spinning without real options. Come back when you have all your chickens, IMO
this. also wouldn't count on uchicago with a 3.53. I'd say take NU or Mich with $
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:14 pm
by lapata
MarkfromWI wrote:Any reason you're not considering NU?
Great question. My work experience makes that a logical choice, and both NU and UPenn fill that 'corporate focus' niche, which I like. I've worked in marketing too, and i think positioning themselves with that niche/reputation will do amazing things for them in the next decade or so.
But for me I think its a question of fit. Both applicant pools are extremely self selecting, and I just don't feel like a NU student overall. The reason most people go is exactly the reason i dont think i want to. I'd like good biglaw stats without overt corporate focus guiding the whole experience, if that makes sense. UPenn 2L mentioned above, an AEPi brother who is really similar in terms of personality, applied and visited and independently confirmed my gut feeling.
Of course, my perception of NU may be wrong. Would love to hear thoughts on this too.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:16 pm
by romothesavior
lapata wrote:MarkfromWI wrote:Any reason you're not considering NU?
Great question. My work experience makes that a logical choice, and both NU and UPenn fill that 'corporate focus' niche, which I like. I've worked in marketing too, and i think positioning themselves with that niche/reputation will do amazing things for them in the next decade or so, given how well
But for me I think its a question of fit. Both applicant pools are extremely self selecting, and I just don't feel like a NU student overall. The reason most people go is exactly the reason i dont think i want to. I'd like good biglaw stats without overt corporate focus guiding the whole experience, if that makes sense. UPenn 2L mentioned above, an AEPi brother who is really similar in terms of personality, applied and visited and independently confirmed my gut feeling.
Of course, my perception of NU may be wrong. Would love to hear thoughts on this too.
I think you're overthinking this. Law schools are very similar, for the most part. I'm sure you could find the educational experience you're looking for at most of them, and would find decent people at most of them. I don't think you should be crossing schools off the list arbitrarily like this.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:31 pm
by lapata
BigZuck wrote:If by education you mean law professor .
Definitely don't want to teach, for exactly the reasons you said. Education meant like small classes, rock star profs, etc.
James.bungles wrote: wouldnt count on UChicago with 3.53
Yup. Went there UG, and generally URM, so fingers firmly crossed. But generally yup.
romothesavior wrote: I don't think you should be crossing schools off the list arbitrarily like this
Agreed. Going to apply and hopefully float NU these kinds of questions in the interview, see if my first impression moves.
This is all so helpful, even the 'chill out, yo'. Thanks!
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:45 pm
by romothesavior
What do mean generally URM? Do you identify as such on your apps? That would likely change things in a big way.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:53 pm
by lapata
romothesavior wrote:What do mean generally URM? Do you identify as such on your apps? That would likely change things in a big way.
URM = very low-income, single-parent family (<50k/yr) and first person in family to attend college.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:55 pm
by lapata
And wrote diversity statement for all schools describing this and what it would allow me to bring to the classroom. Also worked 20-30 hours/week for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years of UG, which may soften a lower GPA.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:24 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
thats not urm, dont expect a boost
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:30 pm
by 03152016
1) this is way premature
2) don't pay sticker. you have no idea if you'll get biglaw/fedclerk. you have no idea if you'll stay in biglaw long enough to pay off the debt. you have no idea if you'll have decent exit options. don't pay sticker.
3) don't pay sticker
4) you're not a urm
5) if you're gunning for biglaw, wustl isn't a great choice. i'd look for money in the lower t14.
6) don't pay sticker.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:33 pm
by Crowing
I didn't apply to NU for kinda similar reasons and am still butthurt about it to this day. Apply broadly and come back in the spring--as predictable as LS admissions are compared to UG admissions, the game is still highly variable especially in terms of scholarship money.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:35 pm
by DoveBodyWash
you'll get full ride at WUSTL. Will probably get decent money at Michigan/NU. Dunno what your chances are at UChicago.
This is premature before you have actual options but I'm guessing Michigan/NU will make the most sense for you in the end.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:36 pm
by hoos89
Seriously, these questions will be way easier to answer when your cycle is complete. Also, it's super easy to apply broadly now and cross schools off your list once you have more information. You never know what sort of scholarship Northwestern might offer, and even if you don't end up taking it there's always the possibility that you can use it as leverage to get a higher scholarship elsewhere. You should be pretty much blanketing the top 20 or so schools.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:59 pm
by BigZuck
I'm really confused, what does this mean:
"3 yr we in field I want to ultimately pursue (education)"
Sounds like you want to be a big law drone, so just follow the money and balance cost/job prospects with whatever you feel comfortable with. If you need help there then ask TLS once you have real, negotiated options.
If you're concerned about quality/type of education that really doesn't matter. Some schools sound kind of insufferable in some ways but that's all super secondary to cost/job prospects, to the point where it's really just a tie breaker that's pretty far down the list of tie breakers, IMO.
Re: T30 - Midwest Splitter edition
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:55 am
by jingosaur
NU gives a lot more money for high LSAT scores than its peer schools, so you should definitely apply there w/ your numbers. Also, UChi will consider NU scholly $ in negotiations. They won't match, but they'll get it close enough where it's worth it for you. Hypo: If you get into NU and Chicago and NU gives you $90k and Chi gives you $0, you could maybe get Chi up to $60k and then that becomes a very viable option.
You should pretty much blanket the T14, apply to a few regionals where you want to work and go from there. I think some schools will dig your story and give you a slight boost while others won't, but it's very difficult to tell which schools will do which.
Also, wait until you have all your offers on the table until you start thinking about this or else you'll go insane. Good luck!