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Are there any t-14s or t20 I could apply to as well? Thanks

Are you URM? If not, you are a longshot for any T14 schools. T20 is a possibility, but it would be at sticker or close to it in all likelihood.

Check out http://www.mylsn.info for chances

What do you mean by "mid law"? Can you link me to a couple websites of specific firm's you're thinking of?

T20 is a meaningless distinction, it's all about schools that can get you the job you want at an appropriate cost

Boston is out IMO, lack of ties will probably put you at too much of a disadvantage. Seems like NYC and DC aren't too concerned with ties. You should probably narrow your focus a bit, right now you've got a random hodgepodge of regional schools and I can't think of a person who would have the requisite ties to consider all of them.

How are you paying for law school?

1) Before you apply, stop ending sentences with prepositions. Please.

2) Do not apply to Mason unless you want to work in suburban shitlaw, choking on a triple cocktail of landlord/tenant, bankruptcy, and personal injury.

pancakes3 wrote:1) Before you apply, stop ending sentences with prepositions. Please.

2) Do not apply to Mason unless you want to work in suburban shitlaw, choking on a triple cocktail of landlord/tenant, bankruptcy, and personal injury.

you don't have good options

t14s: no shot

strong regionals: in at bc and fordham, but you won't get enough aid to make either option worth it. you'd be in grave debt for the next few decades of your life. don't forget that you'll have to pay taxes on any amount forgiven after 20/25 years.

a lot of it comes down to where you're targeting. if you had in-state at iowa, you'd probably get close to a full-ride. it would be perfectly reasonable to attend. but i can't think of a single strong regional in ny, boston, or dc that will give you the aid that you need.

regionals: you'll get into cardozo, northeastern, and george mason with $$/$$$. i can't recommend anyone attend a school where a graduate has a coinflip chance of obtaining full-time employment as a lawyer. you are going to law school to become a lawyer, not to play career roulette.

The ranking isn't as important as where you want to work, even in the t-14. Fordham is way better than BU for NY, but is still a "trap school". 4-5 points would change your life.

If you're not a URM and you're not willing to retake the LSAT, you should not go to law school. Especially at or near sticker at any of the schools you just mentioned.

RaiderRed wrote:First and foremost, big law is not a factor in my decision. I'd be much happier working at a mid size firm than a big firm from all the research I've done.

Why would you be happier? Do you know why? Have you worked at a mid-law firm?

RaiderRed wrote:I've dreamt of the east coast since being a kid. I would like to work in NYC, Boston, or DC, but I have lived in Texas my whole life until this point.

Again, why? You've dreamed of living there, but you never have. Do you know you'll like it enough to tie yourself to the region with, in all likelihood, a regional school?

RaiderRed wrote:I'm applying this cycle and so I'm trying to figure out if there are any schools I'm overlooking that I should be applying to. My numbers at 3.54, 164. I do not want to retake again, December falls in the heart of my finals.

You may not want to, but you should.

I will throw in the caveat that applying to a variety of schools will give you the opportunity to negotiate w/ scholarships. It's a limited amount, but may be worthwhile if you get fee waivers, etc.

The vibe i get from you is the following:

I know my LSAT isn't high enough to get me into a T14 which would give me a decent shot at biglaw, so I'll just convince myself that Biglaw isn't the goal and "midlaw" (Whatever that is) would be fine. Even though I have never lived in a certain location, I dream it would be great. Therefore, I would be okay living there for the rest of my life because the regional school I will likely choose will limit me to that location or at best a couple hundred mile radius. I'm not going to retake the LSAT because it sucked before. Therefore, should I go to whatever T50 seems reasonable?

Here are my suggestions:

1) retake
1a) don't go
2) No really don't go because even if you go for free to a regional with minimal debt, you may not even want to live there after.

If you want to go to an east coast school and you're not from the east coast, you pretty much need to go to a T14 or get a full ride from a regional school. The east coast has 4 types of schools: 1. T14s 2. Expensive trap schools that place about 10% to 20% of their class in biglaw and the rest get screwed. 3. Regional schools that have okay job placement, but have very insular networks that require very strong ties. and 4. TTTTs that nobody should attend. Pretty much every east coast school falls squarely into one of these 4 categories. 1 is unattainable with your current numbers. 2 and 3 are maybe attainable, but only at sticker price and you're not likely to achieve your goals with either. And nobody should attend TTTTs so don't even consider that route.

With your numbers, you should definitely retake. If you won't retake or if you don't improve on a retake, stay in Texas so you at least have an okay shot at getting a job.

As life advice, if you want to be on the east coast so bad, maybe try to get a job after undergrad on the east coast and spend a couple of years working, living where you want, and figuring out your life all without the burden of massive amounts of non-dischargeable debt.

RaiderRed wrote:So now that a little dust has settled from September waiting, I'm trying to get some help choosing hitch schools to apply to. First and foremost, big law is not a factor in my decision. I'd be much happier working at a mid size firm than a big firm from all the research I've done. What is a factor is location. I've dreamt of the east coast since being a kid. I would like to work in NYC, Boston, or DC, but I have lived in Texas my whole life until this point. I'm applying this cycle and so I'm trying to figure out if there are any schools I'm overlooking that I should be applying to. My numbers at 3.54, 164. I do not want to retake again, December falls in the heart of my finals. So far I've looked at Cardozo, fordham, BC, BU, northeastern, and George Mason. Are there other schools I should apply to in these regions with my numbers? Thanks for any help.

LOL what ... "mid law" (however you define it) is probably harder to get than biglaw.. there are so few spots for LS grads.

jingosaur wrote:If you want to go to an east coast school and you're not from the east coast, you pretty much need to go to a T14 or get a full ride from a regional school. The east coast has 4 types of schools: 1. T14s 2. Expensive trap schools that place about 10% to 20% of their class in biglaw and the rest get screwed. 3. Regional schools that have okay job placement, but have very insular networks that require very strong ties. and 4. TTTTs that nobody should attend. Pretty much every east coast school falls squarely into one of these 4 categories. 1 is unattainable with your current numbers. 2 and 3 are maybe attainable, but only at sticker price and you're not likely to achieve your goals with either. And nobody should attend TTTTs so don't even consider that route.

With your numbers, you should definitely retake. If you won't retake or if you don't improve on a retake, stay in Texas so you at least have an okay shot at getting a job.

As life advice, if you want to be on the east coast so bad, maybe try to get a job after undergrad on the east coast and spend a couple of years working, living where you want, and figuring out your life all without the burden of massive amounts of non-dischargeable debt.

jingosaur wrote:If you want to go to an east coast school and you're not from the east coast, you pretty much need to go to a T14 or get a full ride from a regional school. The east coast has 4 types of schools: 1. T14s 2. Expensive trap schools that place about 10% to 20% of their class in biglaw and the rest get screwed. 3. Regional schools that have okay job placement, but have very insular networks that require very strong ties. and 4. TTTTs that nobody should attend. Pretty much every east coast school falls squarely into one of these 4 categories. 1 is unattainable with your current numbers. 2 and 3 are maybe attainable, but only at sticker price and you're not likely to achieve your goals with either. And nobody should attend TTTTs so don't even consider that route.

Never heard it explained this way, but highly credited.

jingosaur wrote:If you want to go to an east coast school and you're not from the east coast, you pretty much need to go to a T14 or get a full ride from a regional school. The east coast has 4 types of schools: 1. T14s 2. Expensive trap schools that place about 10% to 20% of their class in biglaw and the rest get screwed. 3. Regional schools that have okay job placement, but have very insular networks that require very strong ties. and 4. TTTTs that nobody should attend. Pretty much every east coast school falls squarely into one of these 4 categories. 1 is unattainable with your current numbers. 2 and 3 are maybe attainable, but only at sticker price and you're not likely to achieve your goals with either. And nobody should attend TTTTs so don't even consider that route.

With your numbers, you should definitely retake. If you won't retake or if you don't improve on a retake, stay in Texas so you at least have an okay shot at getting a job.

As life advice, if you want to be on the east coast so bad, maybe try to get a job after undergrad on the east coast and spend a couple of years working, living where you want, and figuring out your life all without the burden of massive amounts of non-dischargeable debt.

Solid advice all around.

romothesavior wrote:If you're not a URM and you're not willing to retake the LSAT, you should not go to law school. Especially at or near sticker at any of the schools you just mentioned.

This. If you are worried about delaying by a year or two, don't be. The time is not important and you can pick up some work experience, which IMO Is better than k-jd anyway. Your gpa is decent and you would get into some great schools with money if you go hard on the retake and improve 4-6 points.

I always fail to see why sitting out a cycle or even two is such a big deal. K-JD at a "T30something" < retake when you're ready and break 170. 3.54 and a 172 will literally be life changing considering your alternatives. Just my .02

all its depends on the ranking purposes..

rebcca wrote:all its depends on the ranking purposes..

Looked at your post history. Can not tell if you're a malfunctioning spambot or a dog using an experimental bark-to-text program.

Have you considered the Philly area at all? I know quite a few people who recently graduated from schools like Temple/Villanova/Rutgers and have had no trouble being placed in the city and the surrounding areas (unsure of their class rank). This is just a guess but I would assume that these schools have great pull in both Eastern PA and a lot of NJ....maybe even Delaware as well. I personally worked with a bunch of Nova grads, they seem to be everywhere in the city along with Temple students. I still wouldn't go to either of these schools unless they offered a shit ton of money, but you may be up for some serious $$.

Westofeden wrote:Have you considered the Philly area at all? I know quite a few people who recently graduated from schools like Temple/Villanova/Rutgers and have had no trouble being placed in the city and the surrounding areas (unsure of their class rank). This is just a guess but I would assume that these schools have great pull in both Eastern PA and a lot of NJ....maybe even Delaware as well. I personally worked with a bunch of Nova grads, they seem to be everywhere in the city along with Temple students. I still wouldn't go to either of these schools unless they offered a shit ton of money, but you may be up for some serious $$.

Dear God no. Dude, he's from Texas. Trying to get a job in a parochial market like that is a bad move. TX bro attends a school in NJ to try and get a job in PA? I'm sorry Jose, but no way.

This OP is a lost cause dudes, he's moved on from this thread.

T

Didn't read other stuff, but maybe consider ED GW.

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downbeat14 wrote:"I do not want to retake again"

Why? Retaking later in the year, taking a year off to gain some real world experience, and applying early with a much better LSAT score is 100% better of a life move.

Do what you want... but you could get major $$$ and/or multiple T14 acceptances with just a few more points. Even Feb retake might allow you to leverage schools for money or get in off of a WL this cycle.

Is the Feb test an option for this cycle? I thought that would push me back to next cycle, so I wasn't considering it. The only reason I can't take in December is because I have a final the same day and my professor won't let me take it early.

RaiderRed wrote:

downbeat14 wrote:"I do not want to retake again"

Why? Retaking later in the year, taking a year off to gain some real world experience, and applying early with a much better LSAT score is 100% better of a life move.

Do what you want... but you could get major $$$ and/or multiple T14 acceptances with just a few more points. Even Feb retake might allow you to leverage schools for money or get in off of a WL this cycle.

Is the Feb test an option for this cycle? I thought that would push me back to next cycle, so I wasn't considering it. The only reason I can't take in December is because I have a final the same day and my professor won't let me take it early.

See the "taking a year off to gain real world experience" part. Applying next cycle will not be the end of you, I promise. Paying too much for an uncertain shot at employment very likely will be.

Eta - but to answer your question, if you're set on applying this cycle, a higher score in February may put you in contention for more scholarship money.