Top Law Schools

Help!

I just jumped from the waitlist of Northwestern Law. Actually my original plan is to attend UT law, which give me in-state tuition plus $5000 per year.

Which one I should choose? What I am looking for are big law firm jobs. I know Northwestern Law does really good job in placement, but I am not sure it is worth the risk. I have to take a loan if attend Northwestern Law. They are way too expensive.

Thanks!

Biglaw jobs where?

Because if Texas, then UT, no doubt, not even a question.

If NY/DC... harder decision.

Gotta do all this first:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

impossible to answer without knowing info like coa, goals, how you're financing, etc

ikethegremlin wrote:Biglaw jobs where?

Because if Texas, then UT, no doubt, not even a question.

If NY/DC... harder decision.

No. Bad advice. Texas firms will go deeper into Northwestern's class than they will at UT. As between these two choices, Northwestern is the easy call regardless of where OP wants to work.

OP, this is not a decision between Northwestern and UT. This is a decision between Northwestern at sticker (scary), retaking the LSAT and reapplying, reapplying for a full ride at a decent regional, or not going to law school at all. While going to NU at sticker is terrifying, going to UT for $180K (which is what you'd owe at repayment if you're debt-financing COL) is utterly indefensible. UT is reasonable for ~$100K of debt at repayment or less.

To get more tailored advice, please provide the info requested.

Ti Malice wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:Biglaw jobs where?

Because if Texas, then UT, no doubt, not even a question.

If NY/DC... harder decision.

No. Bad advice. Texas firms will go deeper into Northwestern's class than they will at UT. As between these two choices, Northwestern is the easy call regardless of where OP wants to work.

OP, this is not a decision between Northwestern and UT. This is a decision between Northwestern at sticker (scary), retaking the LSAT and reapplying, reapplying for a full ride at a decent regional, or not going to law school at all. While going to NU at sticker is terrifying, going to UT for $180K (which is what you'd owe at repayment if you're debt-financing COL) is utterly indefensible. UT is reasonable for ~$100K of debt at repayment or less.

To get more tailored advice, please provide the info requested.

No...just no.

LOL. Only a clueless 0L or a UT fanboy (edit: or apparently an ND student who hasn't even gone through OCI yet) would say otherwise. The UT posters here will agree.

Going to Northwestern at sticker is "utterly indefensible" as well.

Retake/reapply!

Neither. Both are way too expensive at that price.

Also worth noting that whether you're going to Northwestern at sticker or Texas with 5k you are paying more than average tuition and you are funding the scholarships of those with better credentials. Don't be the person who pays an absurd price so that someone else can get a good deal.

ls23 wrote:

Ti Malice wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:Biglaw jobs where?

Because if Texas, then UT, no doubt, not even a question.

If NY/DC... harder decision.

No. Bad advice. Texas firms will go deeper into Northwestern's class than they will at UT. As between these two choices, Northwestern is the easy call regardless of where OP wants to work.

OP, this is not a decision between Northwestern and UT. This is a decision between Northwestern at sticker (scary), retaking the LSAT and reapplying, reapplying for a full ride at a decent regional, or not going to law school at all. While going to NU at sticker is terrifying, going to UT for $180K (which is what you'd owe at repayment if you're debt-financing COL) is utterly indefensible. UT is reasonable for ~$100K of debt at repayment or less.

To get more tailored advice, please provide the info requested.

No...just no.

I go to UT. I've been told by GULC grads who do hiring in TX that its easier to get TX big law from GULC than at UT because the cut offs are lower. This was at one of the big three. It might be firm dependent but I assume it would be easier (perhaps significantly easier) to get TX big law from a T14 than from UT. That's just based on anecdotes I have gathered and from reading TLS but that's the best I can do without having the hard data in front of me (data which doesn't exist, btw)

What is the source for your "No...just no?"

Kool-Aid wrote:Going to Northwestern at sticker is "utterly indefensible" as well.

It's bad, but it's the better of the two options OP posted.

This guy is going to law school this month. There's no way he's retaking/reapplying and recommending that is ridiculous. OP, as you've decided, at this point, to attend law school this year I agree with some of the others that NU at sticker is a better choice than UT at 180k.

Both are way too expensive.

koval wrote:This guy is going to law school this month. There's no way he's retaking/reapplying and recommending that is ridiculous.

Yeah the retake chorus at this point will do little but stress the dude out. We also know nothing of his financial situation.

That price tag for UT is obviously a lot more than you'd like to pay, but if OP is a resident who wants to work in Texas, taking on an extra $120K in debt for Northwestern (for a grand total of $292+) for maybe a 10-15 percent boost to their Texas biglaw chances, seems a little questionable.

Knowing nothing about their situation, I'd prefer the flexibility UT's lower debt load provides. Striking out w/ 300K in the hole is a catastrophe, but 170K can be a little more reasonably serviced by smaller firm jobs. I'd probably choose UT and plan on dropping out after a failed OCI, only 50K in the hole, but I'm pretty risk averse (and maybe a bit biased). There's obviously a much better chance at lucrative work coming out of NU, but OP will be tied to that for a long time if they hate it.

koval wrote:This guy is going to law school this month. There's no way he's retaking/reapplying and recommending that is ridiculous. OP, as you've decided, at this point, to attend law school this year I agree with some of the others that NU at sticker is a better choice than UT at 180k.

I assume the 180k number you put forward for UT is debt-financed? That doesn't seem to be the situation here.

hector wrote: I have to take a loan if attend Northwestern Law.

NU at sticker is $230k out of pocket and UT with $5k/year is $146k, before any financing costs (OP has implied that s/he's paying cash for UT but would need to finance NU). I find it hard to justify taking on $84k in debt (a little over $100k at repayment, if I'm not mistaken) for NU's marginal improvement on outcome when s/he can apparently come out of UT debt free. If s/he intends to work Chicago/DC it might be worth it, but even then it's not a clear choice.

ETA: Disclosure - at UT but NU was my top choice in application cycle.

Ti Malice wrote:LOL. Only a clueless 0L or a UT fanboy (edit: or apparently an ND student who hasn't even gone through OCI yet) would say otherwise. The UT posters here will agree.

Only someone who knows nothing about the Texas market would be so dismissive. A good number of Texas firms have lower cutoffs for UT than they do for NW.

i don't know enough about international applicants to be helpful here
according to other threads, op is an international student who is relying on biglaw to get an h-1b visa
hopefully someone more knowledgeable about the visa stuff can chime in

also, the point of advocating retaking/reapplying is not for op's sake, but for future posters who come across this thread when researching schools

Ti Malice wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:Biglaw jobs where?

Because if Texas, then UT, no doubt, not even a question.

If NY/DC... harder decision.

No. Bad advice. Texas firms will go deeper into Northwestern's class than they will at UT. As between these two choices, Northwestern is the easy call regardless of where OP wants to work.

OP, this is not a decision between Northwestern and UT. This is a decision between Northwestern at sticker (scary), retaking the LSAT and reapplying, reapplying for a full ride at a decent regional, or not going to law school at all. While going to NU at sticker is terrifying, going to UT for $180K (which is what you'd owe at repayment if you're debt-financing COL) is utterly indefensible. UT is reasonable for ~$100K of debt at repayment or less.

To get more tailored advice, please provide the info requested.

I disagree. I haven't gone through OCI yet, but I have been pleasantly surprised by how many of my peers have already gotten 2L offers from firms and many got 1L SAs (~6/25 in my small section.) And of my friends who aren't interested in big law, they have done well finding relevant summer positions for 1L.

I think the real gamble comes into play if you aren't above median and don't want to work in Texas after graduation. This is why I wouldn't go to TX if you would not be happy in TX longterm. But if you would rather do small law in texas than big law in NYC, NU would be an indefensible choice, even with a decent scholarship IMO.

Either way, retake and reapply.

Thank all you guys so much!

Actually, my UT scholarship is instate tuition waiver + 5,000/year, so total will be around 21,000/year. Thus, My UT COA will be no more than 150k for three years, and for NU, I think it will be around 230k. I have to take a loan if decide to attend NU, their COA really way too expensive.

Also, I am an international student, so I need biglaw to sponsor H1B. I have no graphic preference for law firm jobs. The priority for me is to find a job, no matter where it is.

So, any one has some new suggestion? I do not plan to retake or reapply.

Oh. Yeah I'd be really hesitant to do UT in that situation, for many reasons. Northwestern at sticker costs $292K, though.

These are both really not wise options, but gun to my head I guess NU. Hopefully you don't have a gun to your head.

hector wrote:Thank all you guys so much!

Actually, my UT scholarship is instate tuition waiver + 5,000/year, so total will be around 21,000/year. Thus, My UT COA will be no more than 150k for three years, and for NU, I think it will be around 230k. I have to take a loan if decide to attend NU, their COA really way too expensive.

Also, I am an international student, so I need biglaw to sponsor H1B. I have no graphic preference for law firm jobs. The priority for me is to find a job, no matter where it is.

So, any one has some new suggestion? I do not plan to retake or reapply.

Where do you want to work?

NYC, Chicago will be my first choice, but if there are law firms in other cities can provide my H1b, i am also glad to.

Kool-Aid wrote:

hector wrote:Thank all you guys so much!

Actually, my UT scholarship is instate tuition waiver + 5,000/year, so total will be around 21,000/year. Thus, My UT COA will be no more than 150k for three years, and for NU, I think it will be around 230k. I have to take a loan if decide to attend NU, their COA really way too expensive.

Also, I am an international student, so I need biglaw to sponsor H1B. I have no graphic preference for law firm jobs. The priority for me is to find a job, no matter where it is.

So, any one has some new suggestion? I do not plan to retake or reapply.

Where do you want to work?

Yeah, neither! Even if you were comfortable with Texas I don't think it's worth it.

I don't agree with many who say just go to the higher ranked school after a certain debt level, bc "you're screwed without big law anyway", but Northwestern is better for your goals. Just not at that amount...or anywhere close. Good luck

hector wrote:Thank all you guys so much!

Actually, my UT scholarship is instate tuition waiver + 5,000/year, so total will be around 21,000/year. Thus, My UT COA will be no more than 150k for three years, and for NU, I think it will be around 230k. I have to take a loan if decide to attend NU, their COA really way too expensive.

Also, I am an international student, so I need biglaw to sponsor H1B. I have no graphic preference for law firm jobs. The priority for me is to find a job, no matter where it is.

So, any one has some new suggestion? I do not plan to retake or reapply.

OP, the numbers people are throwing around are based on the interest that would accumulate on certain loans from the U.S. government. I am not sure if you are eligible for those programs or not. Because you are taking out so much money, you may potentially accumulate a substantial amount of interest while you are in school. You should factor that in when you consider COA.

Also, you should tell us how you plan to pay for either school. Most people in this thread are operating under the assumption you are financing your entire COA with debt. But from what you have said, it sounds like you might have $150k available to pay for UT. If that is right that dramatically changes the advice people will give you.

If I were an international student and ESL, I wouldn't go to law school in the US unless I had something special going for me (thinking something that makes you IP eligible, but maybe some sort of in demand language if one of those exists).

I think UT is a definite non-starter. Price alone is too high. But wanting to work in Chicago/NYC really ends the discussion. Even if you had a burning desire to work in a place like Houston, I think lack of ties/being ESL hurts your chances there a lot.

Maybe NU is good enough to get you big law. But it's really going to be an uphill battle. I don't think it's worth it.