Top Law Schools

--

Goals?

NYU at sticker is a bad idea tho.

--

if you are interested in PI, NYU is the place to be. You can actually skip BL there.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299
read this and edit the op

usc isn't a great option for biglaw, and their employment numbers are alarming (63.9% of the class obtained full-time, long-term, JD-required employment nine months after graduation with a 7.1% school-funded rate, and 23.9% of the class was underemployed)
otoh, nyu places well in biglaw and pi, but $250k is too much debt to take on for any law school; even in the best case scenario you're looking at years of indebtedness
it's true that nyu is known for pi, but even with lrap/pslf, i wouldn't advocate sticker given the possibility of not finding lrap/pslf qualifying employment (can any nyu students/grads speak to employment outcomes for pi people after school-funding expires?)

150k requires biglaw if you want to pay it off in 10 years or less

So if you want to pay off your loans, go to NYU because you can get a job at median



If you want PI, don't pay off your loans. PLSF = 10 years of PI dedication and you are debt free.


The answer is NYU and NYu unless you want CA

--

tlsusernames wrote:my goal is eventually the un or icc and then after that to become a law professor.
i love nyu and new york. but i also have ties in ca.

both of those are very lofty goals. Make sure you have some more realistic option in case you aren't top 5 students. However, NYU is the only one of your options that makes these options remotely possible.

have you tried negotiating?
nyu sounds like the right school if not for the cost

also, hypothetically, would you still attend law school if you knew ahead of time that you wouldn't be able to achieve the goals you listed?

--

.

before he does any of that i'd see what he gets negotiating
that should be part of the sticky

i got $0 from nyu and $0 on appeal
i decided not to withdraw, kept pushing
phone calls, emails, visits
ended up with $$

i'd stay in the game as long as you can op
worst they can say is no
and if you have to sit out, you sit out

runinthefront wrote:NYU at sticker is always a ridiculous option, no matter what anyone tells you.

I wouldn't pay sticker anywhere.

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

I wouldn't go to either of those schools for that price.

It's Harvard or Yale for prof especially now that market for profs is collapsing.

ikethegremlin wrote:

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

i've lived in manhattan post-college for 6 years. in each of 2 of those years i made roughly $30K, so i know what it feels like to stretch a budget in this city and i think the "new york is so expensive" cliche is accurate with regard to housing but nothing else. meals and groceries are actually cheaper in NYC than in most of the rest of the country. movie tickets? i honestly don't know. who cares? the reason people end up spending more than they can afford is because there's so much to do here and it's hard to resist. if you exercise some self control and focus on what's important, cost of living in NYC will only be marginally more than elsewhere, unless having a ton of indoor space is important to you.

--

runinthefront wrote:
Your goals will be very,very, very, very hard to attain in this day and age, and a PI job after graduating isn't a guarantee, either.

OP should also consider the fact that he/she may not like their PI job even if he/she is able to obtain one. A search of TLS will show you many people who were dead set on PI and assumed debt didn't matter because of LRAP and then hated PI once they were in it so even if OP is able to avoid years of big law misery they could end up in a similarly inescapable situation for 10 years in PI.

I wouldn't do USC with OP's goals and NYU is just too expensive.

OP you should also post GPA and LSAT to see if how your cycle turned out and whether a LSAT retake could boost you into scholarship money or possibly even HYS (which better suits your goals and could be cheaper than NYU).

Tl;dr neither current option but a retake could help you tremendously without having to budge on goals at all.

Swimp wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

i've lived in manhattan post-college for 6 years. in each of 2 of those years i made roughly $30K, so i know what it feels like to stretch a budget in this city and i think the "new york is so expensive" cliche is accurate with regard to housing but nothing else. meals and groceries are actually cheaper in NYC than in most of the rest of the country. movie tickets? i honestly don't know. who cares? the reason people end up spending more than they can afford is because there's so much to do here and it's hard to resist. if you exercise some self control and focus on what's important, cost of living in NYC will only be marginally more than elsewhere, unless having a ton of indoor space is important to you.

Meals and groceries cheaper than most of the country? Definitely going to need a source on that one.

Swimp wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

i've lived in manhattan post-college for 6 years. in each of 2 of those years i made roughly $30K, so i know what it feels like to stretch a budget in this city and i think the "new york is so expensive" cliche is accurate with regard to housing but nothing else. meals and groceries are actually cheaper in NYC than in most of the rest of the country. movie tickets? i honestly don't know. who cares? the reason people end up spending more than they can afford is because there's so much to do here and it's hard to resist. if you exercise some self control and focus on what's important, cost of living in NYC will only be marginally more than elsewhere, unless having a ton of indoor space is important to you.

Dude, that's just patently bullshit. You may have managed to live cheaply and congratulations on doing so, but every source out there will tell you differently.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... cago%2C+IL

Here, for instance, is the cost of living difference between Chicago and NY.
Groceries: 20% cheaper in Chicago.
Rents: 43% lower in Chicago.
Restaurants prices: 25% lower in Chicago.

I think that's a pretty reasonable comparison of cities. Now lets look at OPs question, LA
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... York%2C+NY

Indices Difference
Consumer Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 27.11% lower than in New York,
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Los Angeles, CA are 33.70% lower than in New York
Rent Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 40.78% lower than in New York
Restaurant Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 21.79% lower than in New York
Groceries Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 29.61% lower than in New York
Local Purchasing Power in Los Angeles, CA is 27.53% higher than in New York

BigZuck wrote:

Swimp wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

i've lived in manhattan post-college for 6 years. in each of 2 of those years i made roughly $30K, so i know what it feels like to stretch a budget in this city and i think the "new york is so expensive" cliche is accurate with regard to housing but nothing else. meals and groceries are actually cheaper in NYC than in most of the rest of the country. movie tickets? i honestly don't know. who cares? the reason people end up spending more than they can afford is because there's so much to do here and it's hard to resist. if you exercise some self control and focus on what's important, cost of living in NYC will only be marginally more than elsewhere, unless having a ton of indoor space is important to you.

Meals and groceries cheaper than most of the country? Definitely going to need a source on that one.

Yea, I completely disagree with Swimp on this one. First, it's just flat out wrong from a CPI perspective. Second, Manhattan is different from Bedford Stuy or New Rochelle, where maybe food or utilities prices are deflated relative to other expensive metro areas (DC, SF, ect): as an NYU student, you can live in Brooklyn, but you'll be "in" Manhattan and paying Manhattan prices functionally speaking for much of your life.

Drawing from anecdotal experience of living in New York, a movie ticket, for example, is $16 minimum; it's $6 in Minneapolis, $11-12 in LA. A makers rocks is $11-14 at a reasonable bar in the city, and $7-10 in OC/LA. So you don't go out? Staple products - almond milk, for example - $5.39 at my local grocer in Morningside (which is more than TJ's but cheaper than the west village). It's like $2.79 where I'm from in southern california.

Also, even if it was just rent per sq ft that was ridiculous - and it's not just rent - considering that is probably the largest monthly expenditure for a student, it's still a huge consideration.

Very few people are subsiding in or near manhattan on $30K (if you did it, honestly congrats on your diligence, but you can't pretend it's routine). People in publishing, acting, high school teaching, ect. are typically dependent on family resources. it's fucked up but it's true.

ikethegremlin wrote:

Swimp wrote:

ikethegremlin wrote:

tlsusernames wrote:I know those are hard to reach goals...but that is how i live my life and who i am! so i set those goals and do everything i can to achieve them. but yes, i have backup plans.
I've always known nyu is where i want to be..it's just the extra approx 100k loans that Im thinking about.
but in the end, i feel like nyu will keep my options open...whereas usc will limit me to practicing in ca. so maybe the extra 100k is worth it after all?

Have you lived in NY? I did my undergrad at NYU - great school, loved every minute of it, but holy shit does living there add up. I had friends at USC who were living near campus in that kind of semi-ghetto area that's half student housing and half gang housing, and they spent about a third of what I did on rent for much bigger spaces.

On top of that, everything costs more - meals, groceries, movie tickets - you name it. I guess you get to save on having a car, but then you're out 120 bucks a month on a subway card too.

Just saying - NYU at sticker comes with NY pricing too.

i've lived in manhattan post-college for 6 years. in each of 2 of those years i made roughly $30K, so i know what it feels like to stretch a budget in this city and i think the "new york is so expensive" cliche is accurate with regard to housing but nothing else. meals and groceries are actually cheaper in NYC than in most of the rest of the country. movie tickets? i honestly don't know. who cares? the reason people end up spending more than they can afford is because there's so much to do here and it's hard to resist. if you exercise some self control and focus on what's important, cost of living in NYC will only be marginally more than elsewhere, unless having a ton of indoor space is important to you.

Dude, that's just patently bullshit. You may have managed to live cheaply and congratulations on doing so, but every source out there will tell you differently.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... cago%2C+IL

Here, for instance, is the cost of living difference between Chicago and NY.
Groceries: 20% cheaper in Chicago.
Rents: 43% lower in Chicago.
Restaurants prices: 25% lower in Chicago.

I think that's a pretty reasonable comparison of cities. Now lets look at OPs question, LA
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... York%2C+NY

Indices Difference
Consumer Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 27.11% lower than in New York,
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Los Angeles, CA are 33.70% lower than in New York
Rent Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 40.78% lower than in New York
Restaurant Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 21.79% lower than in New York
Groceries Prices in Los Angeles, CA are 29.61% lower than in New York
Local Purchasing Power in Los Angeles, CA is 27.53% higher than in New York

thank you. I was too lazy to break this out myself

--

tlsusernames wrote:I've already included the differences in cost of living for both loan amounts. LA is just a little bit cheaper.
Do you all think attending NYU over USC will substantially change my life/career?

Yes. But I can't in good conscience advise you to borrow that much money to go to either school.

What was your LSAT? If there is room for improvement, you absolutely need to take a year off and retake the LSAT, and either go to HYS or get some scholarship money at CCN.