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I'm in just over $100K undergrad student loan debt and everything I've read about Vanderbilt shows that it's one of the priciest schools, is there any value in taking it over UMN with a full scholarship?

Where do you want to practice?

arklaw13 wrote:Where do you want to practice?

Not set on anything yet but I'm planning on moving to Texas or Louisiana and taking the bar there.

elijahkalgan wrote:

arklaw13 wrote:Where do you want to practice?

Not set on anything yet but I'm planning on moving to Texas or Louisiana and taking the bar there.

Neither is really great for your goals. You shouldn't go to UMN unless you want to work in that area. Vandy at that price isn't a great option. If you can get a full ride at UMN, you should have a decent shot at UT. Did you apply there? Your best bet is to retake.

These options don't make sense.

A UMN degree won't get you a job in Texas or LA.

Going to Vanderbilt would leave you in about $300K of educational debt.

If you got a full ride at UMN you could probably get a full ride at SMU or something.

arklaw13 wrote:

elijahkalgan wrote:

arklaw13 wrote:Where do you want to practice?

Not set on anything yet but I'm planning on moving to Texas or Louisiana and taking the bar there.

Neither is really great for your goals. You shouldn't go to UMN unless you want to work in that area. Vandy at that price isn't a great option. If you can get a full ride at UMN, you should have a decent shot at UT. Did you apply there? Your best bet is to retake.

Got rejected from UT (splitter 2.89/170), waitlisted at UVA, Northwestern, and GULC but obviously can't count on those to come through. My inclination is to go with the money since I'm already under a ton of debt but I was just curious if Vanderbilt's employment prospects were significantly better or if there was a chance it could move into the T-14.

Paul Campos wrote:These options don't make sense.

A UMN degree won't get you a job in Texas or LA.

Going to Vanderbilt would leave you in about $300K of educational debt.

If you got a full ride at UMN you could probably get a full ride at SMU or something.

Might have to reconsider where I'm gonna live then at least in the short term, took the LSAT twice and I'm done man.

With 100K preexisting debt you really shouldn't go to law school unless you can get a full ride to UT or a T14 (obviously neither will happen with that GPA).

Gotta get a job and start paying down that debt, IMO.

You've already got way too much debt for me to endorse Vandy on 65k scholly here.

Either go to UMN and target the northern Midwest or retake.

Agree w/ Zuck that even UMN w/ 100k is bad.

elijahkalgan wrote:

arklaw13 wrote:

elijahkalgan wrote:

arklaw13 wrote:Where do you want to practice?

Not set on anything yet but I'm planning on moving to Texas or Louisiana and taking the bar there.

Neither is really great for your goals. You shouldn't go to UMN unless you want to work in that area. Vandy at that price isn't a great option. If you can get a full ride at UMN, you should have a decent shot at UT. Did you apply there? Your best bet is to retake.

Got rejected from UT (splitter 2.89/170), waitlisted at UVA, Northwestern, and GULC but obviously can't count on those to come through. My inclination is to go with the money since I'm already under a ton of debt but I was just curious if Vanderbilt's employment prospects were significantly better or if there was a chance it could move into the T-14.

I'm a Vandy 2L. Vandy's job numbers are significantly better (http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... minnesota/), but both are regional schools. Vandy will get you to the southeast. UMN will get you to the midwest. I would not recommend Vandy at that price, especially if you aren't looking to practice in the southeast. Any employer in TX or LA is going to be extremely skeptical of someone who went to UMN. Neither of those options are good ones really. You need to sit out a year and retake. Your results will be unpredictable given your splitter status, but you really shouldn't resign yourself to going this cycle.

With that much debt, I wouldn't go to law school. If you're dead set on picking between those two though, take the full ride at UMN and change where you plan on living. Although, I wouldn't go to law school.

Both are bad options. Get a job and pay down that Undergrad debt. For Texas, you need lower t-14 with ties, upper t-14 w/ or w/o ties, or UT at Austin. For LA, LSU or Tulane, or t-14. With your undergrad debt and two choices, don't go.

hipcatdaddio wrote:With that much debt, I wouldn't go to law school. If you're dead set on picking between those two though, take the full ride at UMN and change where you plan on living. Although, I wouldn't go to law school.

+1

U apply late?

$100k ug debt = don't go to law school

Horrendous idea

Do not pass go do not collect $200

I would also recommend against going to law school. Your job prospects will turn on what your grades are. The median undergrad GPA for both of those schools is above a 3.7. If you can't get decent grades in undergrad, where the work that you put in usually has a pretty strong correlation to the grade you get, I don't have a whole lot of faith that you'll be able to outperform a class full of people who have done pretty well in undergrad. If there are extenuating circumstances as to why you ended up with below a 3.0, like a bad freshman year with three years of great grades, then that's one thing. But they would have to be pretty damn compelling.

This isn't to say that bad undergrad grades means you'll get bad grades in law school. Just that the people you'll be graded against have, on the whole, already outperformed you prior to law school. Less than 15% of c/o 2013 at UMN got biglaw. Do you want to bet three years and another $100k of debt that you'll be in the top 15% of your class at UMN when you couldn't get a 3.0 in undergrad? I wouldn't make that bet.

[quote="elijahkalgan"]I'm in just over $100K undergrad student loan debt and everything I've read about Vanderbilt shows that it's one of the priciest schools, is there any value in taking it over UMN with a full scholarship?[/quote]

You've gotta be really careful with where you go. I'd definitely say a no go on Vandy. I'd probably wait until the next cycle, because if you wanna work in texas UT, SMU or T14 are your best options. UT would probably provide the most value

Edit: Didnt see where you said you got rejected. Sorta surprised. I know your GPA is under 3 but a 170 LSAT is great. Where are you a resident?

Neither

have you spent much time looking for work? if so, how long have you been unemployed/underemployed? I'm assuming your UG loans are subsidized so interest won't accrue while you're in school. If so, I understand the attraction of heading to law school rather than paying down the loans. But it's very unlikely you'll graduate from UMN and get a job with sufficient income to pay down over $100K in a reasonable time.

here's where maybe I diverge from the others. Honestly I think you're fucked either way (sounds darker on the internet than I would say it in person, no offense intended). You have a shitty UG GPA so you're not getting a high paying job right now, unless you already have one, your degree is in EE/CS, or you have mad connections (but then you probably wouldn't have taken loans for college). Conversely, getting a JD won't really help you become better employed unless 1) you do unbelievably well, or 2) you attend a top program. I fear that attending Minnesota will simply push your debt enslavement back a few years.

that being said, depending on how you answer the questions up top, maybe going to minnesota is actually the better of two pretty shitty circumstances, fiscally speaking. You'll accrue $50K more loans attending minnesota on CoL, but chances are you'll be employed in some capacity. I don't know which is worse but I'm sympathetic to going for free, living cheaply, as long as your UG loans aren't accruing interest, and then working for years to pay down the combined debt if it's an alternative to just defaulting within the next few months.

Go get a job in Texas for 1-2 years. Pay down even just a little bit of that debt and establish residency, and then apply to UT at the very beginning of a cycle. You will almost certainly get in and pay way less for much better outcomes in your desired location.

WokeUpInACar wrote:Go get a job in Texas for 1-2 years. Pay down even just a little bit of that debt and establish residency, and then apply to UT at the very beginning of a cycle. You will almost certainly get in and pay way less for much better outcomes in your desired location.

Best advice you'll get.

choward014 wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:Go get a job in Texas for 1-2 years. Pay down even just a little bit of that debt and establish residency, and then apply to UT at the very beginning of a cycle. You will almost certainly get in and pay way less for much better outcomes in your desired location.

Best advice you'll get.

+1

This plan and consider SMU on a big scholly (rare for them but possible) too IMHO

Oh man I really like the "move to your target market and establish residency" plan. Pay down your debt, establish ties, and get into a better school sounds like a win.

arklaw13 wrote:I would also recommend against going to law school. Your job prospects will turn on what your grades are. The median undergrad GPA for both of those schools is above a 3.7. If you can't get decent grades in undergrad, where the work that you put in usually has a pretty strong correlation to the grade you get, I don't have a whole lot of faith that you'll be able to outperform a class full of people who have done pretty well in undergrad. If there are extenuating circumstances as to why you ended up with below a 3.0, like a bad freshman year with three years of great grades, then that's one thing. But they would have to be pretty damn compelling.

This isn't to say that bad undergrad grades means you'll get bad grades in law school. Just that the people you'll be graded against have, on the whole, already outperformed you prior to law school. Less than 15% of c/o 2013 at UMN got biglaw. Do you want to bet three years and another $100k of debt that you'll be in the top 15% of your class at UMN when you couldn't get a 3.0 in undergrad? I wouldn't make that bet.

I agree with your overall point, but I'd add that while OP underperformed most of his perspective classmates in undergrad, he outperformed most of them on the LSAT, which is from what I understand the better predictor anyway.

Anyway, yeah, OP, if you're dead set on law school, move to Texas, become a resident, and then reapply to UT in a year or two. But really, you should try to work on that undergrad debt.

elijahkalgan wrote: but I was just curious if Vanderbilt's employment prospects were significantly better or if there was a chance it could move into the T-14.

Even if Vandy moved into the T14, as UT did a couple of years ago, it still wouldn't be a T14 school. You've got the causation backwards here. The term "T14" exists because there are 14 schools that can place nationally to varying degrees, not because USNWR ranks them a certain way. The only reason USNWR has any credibility at all is that it manages to get the T14 right (just in regard to membership, and not with respect to meaningless divisions like MVPB and DNCG).