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Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:10 pm
by templeofjawns
Right now, I'm deciding between Berkeley and UCLA, with UCLA sitting at half tuition (75k scholarship).
Berkeley appears to be the objectively better school, but I'm having a hard time deciding if it's worth sticker. I feel like it would definitely open more doors down the line, being a top 10 school, but the idea of $200,000+ debt is scary and pretty much makes biglaw necessary. There's also the prospect of not being in the top 50% of the class at Berkeley too, which eliminates biglaw and leaves me with a lot of debt.
My goals are somewhere along the lines of federal clerkship/biglaw, probably in California.
Thanks for the guidance!
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:28 pm
by Dr.Zer0
Well, where in CA do you want to practice biglaw?
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:14 pm
by templeofjawns
Dr.Zer0 wrote:Well, where in CA do you want to practice biglaw?
Most likely somewhere in SoCal.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:36 pm
by MikeJD
Ask UCLA for more money, tell them you got off the waitlist at Berkeley. Ok that probably won't work.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm
by Dr.Zer0
MikeJD wrote:Ask UCLA for more money, tell them you got off the waitlist at Berkeley. Ok that probably won't work.
You should try doing this either way. Let them say no. But yeah Berkeley will make it easier to get SoCal big law. Looking at their employment numbers:
55% of Cal graduates get Biglaw or Fed. Clerkship
40% of UCLA grads get Biglaw or Fed. Clerkship
However, keep in mind that Berkeley will give you a better shot overall at biglaw because you still have a shot at NY firms if you are below median at Cal, which isn't a possibility at below median at UCLA. It's a tough choice for sure. Best of luck on deciding.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:50 pm
by Ti Malice
templeofjawns wrote:
Berkeley appears to be the objectively better school, but I'm having a hard time deciding if it's worth sticker. I feel like it would definitely open more doors down the line, being a top 10 school, but the idea of $200,000+ debt is scary and pretty much makes biglaw necessary.
Just to be sure you're aware, debt-financing the full COA at Berkeley means $290-295K of debt at repayment. With your scholarship at UCLA, you still come out owing $175-195K (depending upon residency), which is insane. (Then again, Berkeley at sticker also seems pretty crazy to me.)
Dr.Zer0 wrote:
55% of Cal graduates get Biglaw or Fed. Clerkship
40% of UCLA grads get Biglaw or Fed. Clerkship
.
Also keep in mind that with Berkeley having a significant PI-focused community, a greater (and unknown) percentage of students there will be targeting and getting PI. Probably safe to assume Berkeley will place better in BigFed as well. Point being that the spread between the two schools in desirable outcomes will be greater than that indicated by just the BigLaw+FedClerk numbers.
OP, you can eliminate UCLA off the bat at that price. The real decision is between Berkeley, possibly retaking/reapplying, and not going at all.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:52 pm
by goldenflash19
#s?
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:23 pm
by 03152016
debt-financed COA at boalt is $297k
i'm not saying you should go to ucla
but there are very few reasons sticker at boalt would be defensible imo
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:35 pm
by Sls17
What is your GPA/LSAT?
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:39 pm
by L’Étranger
First off, with no relevant work experience or background, it's anecdotally more like top 2/3 of class are in the running for biglaw at B. With work experience or background even lower grades may still get a swing at biglaw from B.
Second, have you tried to negotiate with UCLA? I think a full scholarship would tip the balance in favor of UCLA.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:51 am
by templeofjawns
L’Étranger wrote:First off, with no relevant work experience or background, it's anecdotally more like top 2/3 of class are in the running for biglaw at B. With work experience or background even lower grades may still get a swing at biglaw from B.
Second, have you tried to negotiate with UCLA? I think a full scholarship would tip the balance in favor of UCLA.
Well I'm told that UCLA overextended its offers this year, so they don't have any more funds available as far as I know.
One of the biggest concerns for me is if the prestige and roughly 15% better placement in biglaw/clerkships is worth the extra $100,000?
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:17 am
by Ti Malice
templeofjawns wrote:One of the biggest concerns for me is if the prestige and roughly 15% better placement in biglaw/clerkships is worth the extra $100,000?
In the interests of accurate data, see my post above. Berkeley's advantage over UCLA in placing into desired outcomes is considerably greater than 15 percentage points. But that doesn't mean it's worth the extra $100K.
UCLA is patently
not worth the debt you would take on (this should not even be viewed as an option), but, personally speaking, I would not even consider attending Berkeley at sticker either. If you can get your total debt at repayment down to ~$100K at UCLA, then it becomes a defensible option. Regardless of what you've heard about their scholarship fund, make them tell you no at least twice before you accept that they won't increase your scholarship.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:52 am
by yadiermolina
Neither as it stands now.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:40 pm
by Winston1984
yadiermolina wrote:Neither as it stands now.
+1
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:56 pm
by moneybagsphd
No way is Boalt worth full COA for 3 years. And you'd need another 15k/year from UCLA to make it worthwhile. I think you would end up regretting either choice.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:59 pm
by 03152016
moneybagsphd wrote:No way is Boalt worth full COA for 3 years. And you'd need another 15k/year from UCLA to make it worthwhile. I think you would end up regretting either choice.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:10 pm
by templeofjawns
Ti Malice wrote:templeofjawns wrote:One of the biggest concerns for me is if the prestige and roughly 15% better placement in biglaw/clerkships is worth the extra $100,000?
In the interests of accurate data, see my post above. Berkeley's advantage over UCLA in placing into desired outcomes is considerably greater than 15 percentage points. But that doesn't mean it's worth the extra $100K.
UCLA is patently
not worth the debt you would take on (this should not even be viewed as an option), but, personally speaking, I would not even consider attending Berkeley at sticker either. If you can get your total debt at repayment down to ~$100K at UCLA, then it becomes a defensible option. Regardless of what you've heard about their scholarship fund, make them tell you no at least twice before you accept that they won't increase your scholarship.
Well factoring in my own savings, here are the costs of attendance (including food, housing, etc.):
UCLA: $100,000
Berkeley: $250,000
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:08 pm
by rpupkin
templeofjawns wrote:
Well factoring in my own savings, here are the costs of attendance (including food, housing, etc.):
UCLA: $100,000
Berkeley: $250,000
You're getting $75K if you attend UCLA. Yet your estimated difference in COA between UCLA and Berkeley is $150K. Where is the other $75K coming from? Will you be living at home or something if you go to UCLA? (I know Berkeley is more expensive, but I'd be shocked if it would cost you an additional $25K/yr absent some unusual circumstance.)
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:17 pm
by 03152016
templeofjawns wrote:Ti Malice wrote:templeofjawns wrote:One of the biggest concerns for me is if the prestige and roughly 15% better placement in biglaw/clerkships is worth the extra $100,000?
In the interests of accurate data, see my post above. Berkeley's advantage over UCLA in placing into desired outcomes is considerably greater than 15 percentage points. But that doesn't mean it's worth the extra $100K.
UCLA is patently
not worth the debt you would take on (this should not even be viewed as an option), but, personally speaking, I would not even consider attending Berkeley at sticker either. If you can get your total debt at repayment down to ~$100K at UCLA, then it becomes a defensible option. Regardless of what you've heard about their scholarship fund, make them tell you no at least twice before you accept that they won't increase your scholarship.
Well factoring in my own savings, here are the costs of attendance (including food, housing, etc.):
UCLA: $100,000
Berkeley: $250,000
tbh i still wouldn't do either, personally
but i
especially wouldn't do boalt
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:44 pm
by templeofjawns
rpupkin wrote:templeofjawns wrote:
Well factoring in my own savings, here are the costs of attendance (including food, housing, etc.):
UCLA: $100,000
Berkeley: $250,000
You're getting $75K if you attend UCLA. Yet your estimated difference in COA between UCLA and Berkeley is $150K. Where is the other $75K coming from? Will you be living at home or something if you go to UCLA? (I know Berkeley is more expensive, but I'd be shocked if it would cost you an additional $25K/yr absent some unusual circumstance.)
Mistake on my part, sorry about that.
Berkeley would be about $175,000 or so for me.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:19 pm
by moneybagsphd
templeofjawns wrote:rpupkin wrote:templeofjawns wrote:
Well factoring in my own savings, here are the costs of attendance (including food, housing, etc.):
UCLA: $100,000
Berkeley: $250,000
You're getting $75K if you attend UCLA. Yet your estimated difference in COA between UCLA and Berkeley is $150K. Where is the other $75K coming from? Will you be living at home or something if you go to UCLA? (I know Berkeley is more expensive, but I'd be shocked if it would cost you an additional $25K/yr absent some unusual circumstance.)
Mistake on my part, sorry about that.
Berkeley would be about $175,000 or so for me.
Still neither. Also, a bit of TLS common knowledge/wisdom: most people underestimate their total COA over 3 years (just as most people overestimate the ease with which they'll pay off their loans). There are a lot of reasons for this (e.g. annual tuition hikes can be hard to predict), but chances are you're forgetting something.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:24 pm
by 03152016
how much u got saved
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:33 pm
by xJD2017x
I would go to Berkeley at sticker but I don't have that option.
Re: Berkeley vs. UCLA
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:17 pm
by DaRascal
Berkeley, take out the minimum amount of loans necessary, live like Yoda from Star Wars, and work your butt off for the next 10 years.
#T14orBust