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Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:35 pm**

Hey y'all, i'm trying to get out of my home state and Oregon is offering a full-ride and Miami is offering 22k/yr. I really like both places and can see myself practicing/living in both areas, but have a slightpreference toward living in Miami.

What worries me about OR is their 20% unemployment rate and what worries me about Miami are the loans I'd have to take (~140K total, which is offset by South Florida's rapidly growing legal market compared to OR's. Anyway, would 140K be a manageable level of debt to pay off later coming out of Miami? Would coming out of Oregon debt-free (from scholarships & outside resources) be a better choice? Keep in mind, I cannot retake or see myself doing anything other than law, and have a preference toward boutique/business and biglaw.

Which would y'all choose if you were in my shoes?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:40 pm**

Neither school will give you more than a tiny chance of getting the job you aspire to, and both will make it difficult to get any job if you have literally no connection to the area. If someone strapped a bomb to your car that will explode unless you drive to a law school, I guess I'd do the debt-free option.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:48 pm**

Let's see...you are from Oregon and have a full ride to the state flagship? That's clearly the smartest option.

But if you don't want to practice in Oregon, don't go to UO, but don't go to Miami either. 140k is way too much debt for a not so great chance at a good legal job (or probably any legal job period).

You said your goals are biglaw, which likely won't happen out of any of your choices, so you need to retake the LSAT.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:58 pm**

You need to retake, adjust your expectations, or not go to law school. If you are intent on ruining your life, please choose the option with less debt.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:00 pm**

Where are you getting data that south Florida has a rapidly growing legal market?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:36 pm**

lol. Florida has 11 law schools. There were approximately 3100 people who graduated from a FL law school in 2013. You know how many of them actually found decent jobs? Take a look http://www.lstscorereports.com/state/FL/

Not many. If I wanted to give myself a great shot at unemployment, I would target south Florida.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:43 pm**

deadpanic wrote:don't go to Miami

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:46 pm**

ManoftheHour wrote:
deadpanic wrote:don't go to Miami

or Oregon...or Cleveland

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:59 pm**

deadpanic wrote:Let's see...you are from Oregon and have a full ride to the state flagship? That's clearly the smartest option.

But if you don't want to practice in Oregon, don't go to UO, but don't go to Miami either. 140k is way too much debt for a not so great chance at a good legal job (or probably any legal job period).

You said your goals are biglaw, which likely won't happen out of any of your choices, so you need to retake the LSAT.

I got the impression she wasn't from either state...

Legal unemployment (as in, full time jobs requiring a JD) is WAY more than 20% out of Oregon. If you aren't from Oregon, you would have a really difficult time getting a job here unless you were top 5 in your class, and even then it'd be tough. (and I mean top 5, not 5%). People seriously underestimate "ties" in this state, it is CRAZY INSULAR. People from top schools can get in, but a non-local grad of the second highest ranked local school? eek. That's going to be tough.

I don't know anything about Florida but 140K doesn't sound like a good plan.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:01 pm**

transferror wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
deadpanic wrote:don't go to Miami
or Oregon...or Cleveland

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:01 pm**

retake bro

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:41 pm**

Just wanted to clarify that i'm open to any type of business law (small business, midlaw, biglaw, employment/labor, etc.). Given this, would I still be able to pay off my debts if I went to either Miami or Oregon?

To NYC poster: I got the data about Legal markets from http://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900021 ... ring-2014/

If I lower my expectations to any median or avg. salary job, would I eventually be able to pay off my debts coming from these schools? I have some ties to both FL and OR.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:04 pm**

sidhesadie wrote:
deadpanic wrote:Let's see...you are from Oregon and have a full ride to the state flagship? That's clearly the smartest option.

But if you don't want to practice in Oregon, don't go to UO, but don't go to Miami either. 140k is way too much debt for a not so great chance at a good legal job (or probably any legal job period).

You said your goals are biglaw, which likely won't happen out of any of your choices, so you need to retake the LSAT.
I got the impression she wasn't from either state...

Legal unemployment (as in, full time jobs requiring a JD) is WAY more than 20% out of Oregon. If you aren't from Oregon, you would have a really difficult time getting a job here unless you were top 5 in your class, and even then it'd be tough. (and I mean top 5, not 5%). People seriously underestimate "ties" in this state, it is CRAZY INSULAR. People from top schools can get in, but a non-local grad of the second highest ranked local school? eek. That's going to be tough.

I don't know anything about Florida but 140K doesn't sound like a good plan.

I misread it. You're right--OP isn't from Oregon--I wouldn't go there either then.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:06 pm**

SouthernBelle22 wrote:Just wanted to clarify that i'm open to any type of business law (small business, midlaw, biglaw, employment/labor, etc.). Given this, would I still be able to pay off my debts if I went to either Miami or Oregon?

To NYC poster: I got the data about Legal markets from http://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900021 ... ring-2014/

If I lower my expectations to any median or avg. salary job, would I eventually be able to pay off my debts coming from these schools? I have some ties to both FL and OR.

You should be open to ANY law period. Getting a legal job from any of these schools is a good outcome. If you do snag a legal job, it will likely pay 40-60k/year.

But if you go to Miami, 140k in debt is not manageable without big law and you have a very poor shot of getting big law out of UM.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:09 pm**

Don't go to Miami. That scholarship is weak-sauce. They offer 25k/yr to anyone with a pulse. I wouldn't settle for 22k. If you go to UO you can at least get a chance to see the Oregon-MSU game this fall. It's moments of happiness like that you'll appreciate when you're doing doc-review for the next 7 years.

Just kidding, kind-of.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:13 pm**

Awful choices here. Let me rephrase your question for you:

--LinkRemoved--

But in all seriousness, pls don't settle for Miami @ 140K.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:18 pm**

Undesirable choices. With that said I would take a close look at Miami's stipulations to retain that scholarship. UM is notorious for having difficult to maintain stipulations and many with scholarships lose them. Be wary of incurring a debt load that would be even ore burdensome.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:43 pm**

SouthernBelle22 wrote:Just wanted to clarify that i'm open to any type of business law (small business, midlaw, biglaw, employment/labor, etc.). Given this, would I still be able to pay off my debts if I went to either Miami or Oregon?

To NYC poster: I got the data about Legal markets from http://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900021 ... ring-2014/

If I lower my expectations to any median or avg. salary job, would I eventually be able to pay off my debts coming from these schools? I have some ties to both FL and OR.

If by "job" you mean "any job I could have gotten without going to law school", then sure, if you get a full ride to Oregon (without stips), then you could pay those loans off really slowly with the $10 an hour retail job you are likely to get. If you mean a full time, JD required, legal job, then almost definitely NO. And your desired area of law is a pipe dream around here...there isn't a lot of 'business law' in Oregon to begin with. Employment/Labor would be the only plausible bet, but you'd still lose out to a comparable Oregonian in most cases.

Seriously...I can't overstate ties in Oregon. Unless you have a spouse or parents in Oregon you've neglected to mention, this isn't a good plan.

I don't know if Florida is as bad about ties, but $140k in loans can't be paid off with a "regular" job very easily, so I'd say no on that one too, although I guess you can pay-as-you-earn them for 25 years.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:17 pm**

I get the impression that you are more interested in business than you are in law. What does "business law" mean to you? Transactions? Commercial lit?

Understand also that biglaw is almost certainly off the table and midlaw isn't a real option for a number of reasons. If you go to either school, working in a small firm ( < 25 attorneys) is a best-case realistic outcome.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:21 pm**

sidhesadie wrote:
SouthernBelle22 wrote:Just wanted to clarify that i'm open to any type of business law (small business, midlaw, biglaw, employment/labor, etc.). Given this, would I still be able to pay off my debts if I went to either Miami or Oregon?

To NYC poster: I got the data about Legal markets from http://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900021 ... ring-2014/

If I lower my expectations to any median or avg. salary job, would I eventually be able to pay off my debts coming from these schools? I have some ties to both FL and OR.

If by "job" you mean "any job I could have gotten without going to law school", then sure, if you get a full ride to Oregon (without stips), then you could pay those loans off really slowly with the $10 an hour retail job you are likely to get. If you mean a full time, JD required, legal job, then almost definitely NO. And your desired area of law is a pipe dream around here...there isn't a lot of 'business law' in Oregon to begin with. Employment/Labor would be the only plausible bet, but you'd still lose out to a comparable Oregonian in most cases.

Seriously...I can't overstate ties in Oregon. Unless you have a spouse or parents in Oregon you've neglected to mention, this isn't a good plan.

I don't know if Florida is as bad about ties, but $140k in loans can't be paid off with a "regular" job very easily, so I'd say no on that one too, although I guess you can pay-as-you-earn them for 25 years.

PAYE and IBR are 20 years...not 25. Don't try and cheat OP into extra years. So good news OP...you'll be paying school loans until 2037! It'll go by in no time! Or....and just hear me out, you could retake and go to a better school with little debt and enjoy a better life.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:23 pm**

I've been looking at miami's employment rates, and I sorta figured that it would probably do well in south florida... so where are the majority of lawyers from in miami or tampa, if not u of miami? Just scattered T14's?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:58 pm**

Biglaw is limited in South FL so doubt there are too many T14 grads there w/o ties. I assume most are from regionals. And yes, 60% employment is not completely terrible, but once you add in 20% underemployment, no ties and $140k debt then OPs plan seems like total garbage.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:07 pm**

MrSebastian wrote:Biglaw is limited in South FL so doubt there are too many T14 grads there w/o ties. I assume most are from regionals. And yes, 60% employment is not completely terrible, but once you add in 20% underemployment, no ties and $140k debt then OPs plan seems like total garbage.

I have some ties to FL, but would a 50-65k a year JD-required job (assuming the worst outcome besides unemployment or underemployment) be realistic to pay off 140k?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 pm**

SouthernBelle22 wrote:
MrSebastian wrote:Biglaw is limited in South FL so doubt there are too many T14 grads there w/o ties. I assume most are from regionals. And yes, 60% employment is not completely terrible, but once you add in 20% underemployment, no ties and $140k debt then OPs plan seems like total garbage.
I have some ties to FL, but would a 50-60k a year (assuming the worst JD-required job outcome besides unemployment or underemployment) be realistic to pay off 140k?

Is it even enough to live in miami? Serious question. I thought cost of living was enormous

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:12 pm**

COL is lower than NY. There's a income equivalency chart I have bookmarked somewhere, but it stated/showed figures supporting that a Miami 90-120k job in terms of living standards is comparable to a 130-160K job in NY. I also have an offer from U of New Mexico with half scholarship, which is reduced to 1/4 for 2L & 3L — but the thought of staying in the Southwest/South is very unappealing and simply not something I want to do for the rest of my life

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