Top Law Schools

Okay, I confess: I am considering UMass Dartmouth Law School. I KNOW folks here will point out it is a TTTToilet and only has provisional ABA accreditation. But given my unique circumstances, it MAY(!) be a fit for me.

I am 47, a full time school teacher, and embarking on a new career in law. Consequently, I am limited as to my law school options. I need to keep working so I can get a pension from my teaching (4.5 more years). Given my age, I want to start in August 2014. I need a part-time evening program. I cannot relocate.

I am not looking for a long corporate law career. My plan is to open a private practice, join a small local private practice, or join the state public defenders office.

My choices are UConn, Quinnipiac, and UMass. UConn is my top choice (but they may not be happy with my June LSAT). Quinnipiac is expensive. UMass has the support of the Massachusetts state university system, and MAY be an up and coming institution. They are Massachusetts' only public law school and applications are up. Graduates can sit for the bar in any state. They are eligible for full ABA accreditation in 2015 and have devoted $15M to making that happen. They have a new president and some well-lettered faculty. Finally, UMass schedule is two nights a week plus Saturdays, which will be gentler on my teaching schedule. They offer summer courses.

I expect a fair deal of skepticism from this crowd, but any constructive input is similarly appreciated.

Thank you,
Richard

Why do you want to quit your career as a teacher to become a lawyer?

There is never a good reason to go to a school that is provisional aba. I'm sorry it would be idiotic to do this.

moonman157 wrote:Why do you want to quit your career as a teacher to become a lawyer?

I have always wanted to be a lawyer (I teach law, political science, civics, and criminology). Plus, given incessant standardized testing and resource limitation, government is killing public education. It may be time for a change.

zoomzoom88 wrote:There is never a good reason to go to a school that is provisional aba. I'm sorry it would be idiotic to do this.

Why? Every school, in order to be ABA accredited, is required to go through provisional status, no? They have to start somewhere.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal ... tions.html

It sounds like you've read through this forum enough to know that you are going to end up getting a fair amount of harsh words from people in their early 20's.

In order to give some helpful advice I think we'll need to know why you want to go to law school and how much its going to cost you to go to UMass.

If the scenario is something like this: forced retirement from teaching, have friend/family that says get law degree and help out at my firm, you'll be able to continue working while in law school and UMass is free; then I could see it making sense.

If its more like: I don't get paid enough as a teach and I need to start making lawyer money and I'm willing to go into a couple hundred thousand in debt to do it; then you should avoid law school.

The only solid advice I can give you now is to reach out to people you know in the legal field doing what you think you'd like to do and see what they have to say. This site is primarily populated with corporate law minded 20 somethings who probably won't be able to give you the best advice as to whether or not becoming a lawyer is a good retirement move (or whatever it is you're trying to do with it).

Also, the Mass public defender or CPCS is a really tough place to get a job and you'll need to tailor almost everything you do in law school towards working there if thats what you want to do. Just a heads up.

Good Luck!

RichardWalter wrote:

moonman157 wrote:Why do you want to quit your career as a teacher to become a lawyer?

I have always wanted to be a lawyer (I teach law, political science, civics, and criminology). Plus, given incessant standardized testing and resource limitation, government is killing public education. It may be time for a change.

I trained to be a teacher, and my wife is a teacher. Trust me when I say you should stick with teaching.

[/quote] I trained to be a teacher, and my wife is a teacher. Trust me when I say you should stick with teaching.[/quote]

Thank you for the input, but I am not asking whether I should quit teaching or not; I am. I am asking about UMass Dartmouth Law School.

RichardWalter wrote:

I trained to be a teacher, and my wife is a teacher. Trust me when I say you should stick with teaching.[/quote]

Thank you for the input, but I am not asking whether I should quit teaching or not; I am. I am asking about UMass Dartmouth Law School.[/quote]

Its a sewer. Even with your modest career goals it's extremely unlikely Dartmouth can help you achieve them. UConn for free should be the very worst you settle for. You're a teacher--teach yourself the LSAT for shits sake. Unless someone is guaranteeing you employment with a Dartmouth degree you are better off supplementing your income as a bartender. And that's not a joke-it's financially responsible advice.

Re: UMass Dartmouth specifically, I would only go if you have a guaranteed job lined up with a family member or friend after you graduate OR you're in a financial situation where you can basically be a lawyer for free. If you are looking for a way to fulfill a life long goal of being a lawyer and you'd rather do that than improve your golf game then go for it. But if you are looking for a CAREER change I would not go to UMass. It offers you probably about a 10% shot at a career as a lawyer maybe less.

But like I said earlier, there is not going to be a single positive reply on this message board. Not very many people here, if any know what its like to be an entry level lawyer at age 50 but I can't imagine it being good. Ask family and friends who are lawyers what they think. I'm pretty sure you'll get similar feedback from people in practice in your area.

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Trying to become a lawyer in your early 50s is a terrible idea in general. It would probably be a terrible idea if you were going to Yale for free. The profession is rife with age discrimination, and New England needs a new middle-aged sole practitioner like it needs another overpriced liberal arts college.

Paul Campos wrote:Trying to become a lawyer in your early 50s is a terrible idea in general. It would probably be a terrible idea if you were going to Yale for free. The profession is rife with age discrimination, and New England needs a new middle-aged sole practitioner like it needs another overpriced liberal arts college.

^ this guy is a fellow boomer OP, you should listen to him

Paul Campos wrote:Trying to become a lawyer in your early 50s is a terrible idea in general. It would probably be a terrible idea if you were going to Yale for free. The profession is rife with age discrimination, and New England needs a new middle-aged sole practitioner like it needs another overpriced liberal arts college.

Not to derail, but at what age do you think potential employers start dinging you for age? 30? 35? 40?

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...

Is there a reason that you must start this year? Other than your age? If you haven't maxed out your LSAT retakes, retake it for a higher score and go to UConn next fall. You say it's your #1 choice, and it's by far your best option out of those three schools. Granted, it's not going to be easy becoming a lawyer in your 50s when you're up against an applicant pool of 20- and 30-somethings. But if you decide you absolutely must go to law school, UConn will give you better employment prospects than Dartmouth will.

UMass has the support of the Massachusetts state university system, and MAY be an up and coming institution.... They are eligible for full ABA accreditation in 2015 and have devoted $15M to making that happen.

This is exactly why no one has anything positive to say about the school. It MAY be up-and-coming, and it MAY become fully accredited next year, but there's no guarantee that either of those will happen. You need to evaluate the school as it is right now, not what it may be in the future. And right now it's an unaccredited TTTT that (unless you're very, very lucky) will leave you with a ton of debt and no legal career.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

Paul Campos wrote:Trying to become a lawyer in your early 50s is a terrible idea in general. It would probably be a terrible idea if you were going to Yale for free. The profession is rife with age discrimination, and New England needs a new middle-aged sole practitioner like it needs another overpriced liberal arts college.

Not to derail, but at what age do you think potential employers start dinging you for age? 30? 35? 40?

Wait..no way 30, right?

I have a friend starting at UMass PT. He's aware of the market and how awful it is, but he'll only have 50k debt and will work FT while he attends in a job that I believe is not as good as your teaching job. Do you hate your job that much? What's the reason for pursuing law practice now? I doubt you'll obtain something very fulfilling after law school. I think you're better off staying with your job and attending PT if you must go.

brazleton wrote:Using my own anecdotal experience as a reference, it is certainly not 30. 40 sounds right to me.

Yeah, I ask because I've seen a lot of older (let's say 30+) posters claim that their age/work experience seemed to give them an edge over k-jds. I'm sure there is a tipping point where it goes from an asset to a liability though

OP, it might be helpful if you post debt/cost amounts, how you will be financing this adventure, and your LSAT/GPA.

Generally, the PD office is not going to hire out of UMass Dartmouth. Those offices are extremely in demand now because of the generous public sector loan payment programs, and are going to hire out of the established local law schools like BU/BC (all that crap you hear about how the public defender offices are filled with the dregs of the profession is nonsense for the new generation of lawyers). Unless you are very independently wealthy (like you have a few hundred K to blow), opening a solo practice is also not a good idea for various reasons that you can easily find if you search this forum or around the internet.

That leaves small firm hiring. This is really good advice:

FlanAl wrote:Re: UMass Dartmouth specifically, I would only go if you have a guaranteed job lined up with a family member or friend after you graduate OR you're in a financial situation where you can basically be a lawyer for free.

Please tell me this is a flame post....a whopping 40 percent unemployment rate?? 0 percent biglaw, 0 percent fed clerkships, 21 percent non school funded full time long term employment(quality of job is probably worst than most law schools). i mean you named EVERY "positive" thing about this school, but did you bother to even do the research?

Its a travesty that they are calling this school Dartmouth Law. I wonder if it tricks any 0Ls in to attending because they think its the ivy school lol. is this why op called this school up and coming? this school is not up and coming, nor will it ever be. this school was Southern New England Law School, a TTTT school. please please save yourself.

Paul Campos wrote:Trying to become a lawyer in your early 50s is a terrible idea in general. It would probably be a terrible idea if you were going to Yale for free. The profession is rife with age discrimination, and New England needs a new middle-aged sole practitioner like it needs another overpriced liberal arts college.

You keep saying that but even the oldest olds I know did fine.

also we've had at least 1 40+ person starting every year, and we have small starting classes. maybe you have better data but from what i've seen the older folks do just fine

RichardWalter wrote:Okay, I confess: I am considering UMass Dartmouth Law School. I KNOW folks here will point out it is a TTTToilet and only has provisional ABA accreditation. But given my unique circumstances, it MAY(!) be a fit for me.

I am 47, a full time school teacher, and embarking on a new career in law. Consequently, I am limited as to my law school options. I need to keep working so I can get a pension from my teaching (4.5 more years). Given my age, I want to start in August 2014. I need a part-time evening program. I cannot relocate.

I am not looking for a long corporate law career. My plan is to open a private practice, join a small local private practice, or join the state public defenders office.

My choices are UConn, Quinnipiac, and UMass. UConn is my top choice (but they may not be happy with my June LSAT). Quinnipiac is expensive. UMass has the support of the Massachusetts state university system, and MAY be an up and coming institution. They are Massachusetts' only public law school and applications are up. Graduates can sit for the bar in any state. They are eligible for full ABA accreditation in 2015 and have devoted $15M to making that happen. They have a new president and some well-lettered faculty. Finally, UMass schedule is two nights a week plus Saturdays, which will be gentler on my teaching schedule. They offer summer courses.

I expect a fair deal of skepticism from this crowd, but any constructive input is similarly appreciated.

Thank you,
Richard

finally someone on this board is making sense