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Thank you in advance for your thoughts!

I am a Stanford grad, with a 3.7 gpa and 167 lsat, and am wondering: what are my chances are of getting a scholarship from law schools? Is a full ride even possible, and if so, what type of schools would offer it to me given my stats? I am wondering if places like Berkeley (which might not be easy to get into), University of San Francisco or UC Hastings would give me any $$. Work experience, recs, etc I would say is all pretty average, and I am not an URM.

I was scoring low 170's on LSAT practice tests while self-studying … but I took it years ago, so retaking it would be hard at this point because I would have to spend some time just to get back to where I was. That said, I am potentially open to taking a class to boost my score, especially since my first, blind practice test was 162 and I only boosted myself 5 points via self-study.

Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Thank you for your response and the helpful information. I am thinking maybe a government job, DOJ perhaps, or in house at a start up, but I am still not sure. I am not especially interested in working for a big law firm, but I hear that opens doors so I don't want to rule out that possibility entirely.

I studied for 4 months, probably around 2-3 hours a day. I covered about 20 practice tests, the Powerscore Logic Games bible, and a general LSAT study book (forget which one).

Thank you again!

Where are you thinking of working geographically, just CA? If you've pretty much maxed out your LSAT score and you don't think that retaking is going to increase your score, I think USC/UCLA with $$$ could be a good option, but you're really gonna have to hustle and I also think you really have to nail down exactly what you want to do before you decide on law school. Government jobs aren't easy to get, especially DOJ, and TLS wisdom would say that in house jobs straight out of law school aren't very likely either.

You are retaking. This is not an option. You got into Stanford, got a 3.7, and do not have a 173+? Retake, a quintillion times over is the only acceptable option.

dissonance1848 wrote:You are retaking. This is not an option. You got into Stanford, got a 3.7, and do not have a 173+? Retake, a quintillion times over is the only acceptable option.

+1. As someone who took the LSAT twice, got a 164 both times, and then took it again 4 years later to score a 177, I can tell you that some time in between testing can actually allow the information to sink in and be incorporated more fluidly during the next administration. You are not starting from scratch; what you learned the first time altered your thought processes somewhat, and you will only reinforce and improve that process by continuing to study... RETAKE!

lawschoolherewego wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Thank you for your response and the helpful information. I am thinking maybe a government job, DOJ perhaps, or in house at a start up, but I am still not sure. I am not especially interested in working for a big law firm, but I hear that opens doors so I don't want to rule out that possibility entirely.

I studied for 4 months, probably around 2-3 hours a day. I covered about 20 practice tests, the Powerscore Logic Games bible, and a general LSAT study book (forget which one).

Thank you again!

You didn't even study for that long or have taken enough PTs or gone through enough prep materials!

Try the Powerscore LR book, as well as Manhattan RC/LR/LG, take more PTs and figure out what ur weak point is and continue to drill and drill and drill with the Cambridge packets. Now, you might think dumping almost 1k into prep materials like this might not be worth it, but if that allows u to get 170+ from your current 167, it will be worth the full tuition scholarship from UCLA/USC, or some $$$ from UC Berkeley with ur credentials. 173+ you are looking at your Alma Mater law school given good softs.

Seriously OP, you still have 2 chances left. I used up all three my chances and could not reach what u have scored but I was happy that I at least tried. Even a point of difference in the LSAT from where u currently stand is a world of difference. Please study ur butt off while working part-time or doing whatever u need to do to sustain urself and enjoy T14 or UCLA/USC with $$$$ (I'm dropping the name of these two schools cause u seem to be aiming for CA market).

iskim88 wrote:

lawschoolherewego wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Thank you for your response and the helpful information. I am thinking maybe a government job, DOJ perhaps, or in house at a start up, but I am still not sure. I am not especially interested in working for a big law firm, but I hear that opens doors so I don't want to rule out that possibility entirely.

I studied for 4 months, probably around 2-3 hours a day. I covered about 20 practice tests, the Powerscore Logic Games bible, and a general LSAT study book (forget which one).

Thank you again!

You didn't even study for that long or have taken enough PTs or gone through enough prep materials!

Try the Powerscore LR book, as well as Manhattan RC/LR/LG, take more PTs and figure out what ur weak point is and continue to drill and drill and drill with the Cambridge packets. Now, you might think dumping almost 1k into prep materials like this might not be worth it, but if that allows u to get 170+ from your current 167, it will be worth the full tuition scholarship from UCLA/USC, or some $$$ from UC Berkeley with ur credentials. 173+ you are looking at your Alma Mater law school given good softs.

Seriously OP, you still have 2 chances left. I used up all three my chances and could not reach what u have scored but I was happy that I at least tried. Even a point of difference in the LSAT from where u currently stand is a world of difference. Please study ur butt off while working part-time or doing whatever u need to do to sustain urself and enjoy T14 or UCLA/USC with $$$$ (I'm dropping the name of these two schools cause u seem to be aiming for CA market).

Yea I only focused on CA schools for the same reason. The only problem is that if OP wants to stay in CA, Berkeley and Stanford are both going to be difficult to get in to no matter what the LSAT score.

scottidsntknow wrote:

iskim88 wrote:

lawschoolherewego wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Thank you for your response and the helpful information. I am thinking maybe a government job, DOJ perhaps, or in house at a start up, but I am still not sure. I am not especially interested in working for a big law firm, but I hear that opens doors so I don't want to rule out that possibility entirely.

I studied for 4 months, probably around 2-3 hours a day. I covered about 20 practice tests, the Powerscore Logic Games bible, and a general LSAT study book (forget which one).

Thank you again!

You didn't even study for that long or have taken enough PTs or gone through enough prep materials!

Try the Powerscore LR book, as well as Manhattan RC/LR/LG, take more PTs and figure out what ur weak point is and continue to drill and drill and drill with the Cambridge packets. Now, you might think dumping almost 1k into prep materials like this might not be worth it, but if that allows u to get 170+ from your current 167, it will be worth the full tuition scholarship from UCLA/USC, or some $$$ from UC Berkeley with ur credentials. 173+ you are looking at your Alma Mater law school given good softs.

Seriously OP, you still have 2 chances left. I used up all three my chances and could not reach what u have scored but I was happy that I at least tried. Even a point of difference in the LSAT from where u currently stand is a world of difference. Please study ur butt off while working part-time or doing whatever u need to do to sustain urself and enjoy T14 or UCLA/USC with $$$$ (I'm dropping the name of these two schools cause u seem to be aiming for CA market).

Yea I only focused on CA schools for the same reason. The only problem is that if OP wants to stay in CA, Berkeley and Stanford are both going to be difficult to get in to no matter what the LSAT score.

Yeah OP is below median GPA at both schools, but with good enough LSAT and good enough softs during the year that he/she takes off, and applying early, I think he/she stands a pretty good chance at Berkeley at least, especially since his/her undergrad institution is a pretty darn nice one (Which a lot of schools seem to dig).

iskim88 wrote: Yeah OP is below median GPA at both schools, but with good enough LSAT and good enough softs during the year that he/she takes off, and applying early, I think he/she stands a pretty good chance at Berkeley at least, especially since his/her undergrad institution is a pretty darn nice one (Which a lot of schools seem to dig).

I didn't just mean because of OP's GPA, but it is a factor. Both schools are notorious for being less numbers-driven, as exemplified by their relatively lower medians compared with their rank.

On the subject of numbers--OP, this may or may not help you in looking for FinAid information, but I would reach out to Stanford's undergrad career/post grad office if I were you. I went to Yale, and our UCS actually put together a spreadsheet with the LSATs and GPAs of Yalies who went to law school in the past couple years and showed you the average it took to get in sorted by law school. I know our version doesn't have financial aid info, but the numbers might encourage you a bit--it gives you a fairly different set to look at than the medians you see on LS websites.

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Just curious what makes you think he would get big money at UCLA. Isn't OP below both the medians? His numbers on mylsn seem to suggest he would have a tough time getting in. Are you thinking maybe because he went to Stanford for UG that might give him a boost?

But OP, I would definitely retake.

calbear15 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Just curious what makes you think he would get big money at UCLA. Isn't OP below both the medians? His numbers on mylsn seem to suggest he would have a tough time getting in. Are you thinking maybe because he went to Stanford for UG that might give him a boost?

But OP, I would definitely retake.

Not exactly. He's at the LSAT median and slightly below the GPA median

Oddly enough, the c/0 2016 medians for Berkeley and UCLA were as follows:

UCLA 167/3.79
Berk 167/3.78

Clearly it seems Berkeley is one of the least numbers focused of the top schools.

But yeah, OP needs to retake, apply to UCLA, USC, Berkeley, and Stanford. Then see what happens. All the other Cali schools aren't worth it.

Good luck OP!

calbear15 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Just curious what makes you think he would get big money at UCLA. Isn't OP below both the medians? His numbers on mylsn seem to suggest he would have a tough time getting in. Are you thinking maybe because he went to Stanford for UG that might give him a boost?

But OP, I would definitely retake.

Yeah if they are even admitted to UCLA, they will not get much money. They will almost certainly not get into Duke, probably won't get into Michigan, and GULC/Cornell would both be at sticker. If OP is cool with USC, that should be financially viable; if they are not cool with USC, they need to retake.

Fiero85 wrote:

calbear15 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:Where are you thinking of working? I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree. With your current stats you have chance at getting into some of the lower T14, like GULC or Cornell, maybe Duke or Michigan even, and you should be getting big money at UCLA/USC/WUSTL.

How much time did you devote to studying before? I'd seriously consider retaking just to increase your chances of getting more T14 acceptances/more money.

Just curious what makes you think he would get big money at UCLA. Isn't OP below both the medians? His numbers on mylsn seem to suggest he would have a tough time getting in. Are you thinking maybe because he went to Stanford for UG that might give him a boost?

But OP, I would definitely retake.

Not exactly. He's at the LSAT median and slightly below the GPA median

Oddly enough, the c/0 2016 medians for Berkeley and UCLA were as follows:

UCLA 167/3.79
Berk 167/3.78

Clearly it seems Berkeley is one of the least numbers focused of the top schools.

But yeah, OP needs to retake, apply to UCLA, USC, Berkeley, and Stanford. Then see what happens. All the other Cali schools aren't worth it.

Good luck OP!

Oops, I think I was looking at the c/o 2015 data (for UCLA).

I have a similar GPA and got a 169 on my first try with a similar study method to what you did. I improved my studying routine, took the LSAT 2 more times and got up to 175 and now I'm going to my dream school and probably would have gotten full rides and back-end T14s if I applied to them. Don't waste your Stanford degree because you're too lazy to retake.

Also, if you want to work in the Bay Area after you graduate, you should probably go to a top 6 school or Berkeley. If you want any legal job in California, you have more flexibility for taking money at other T14s or getting major $$ at UCLA and USC.

A Stanford grad with a 167 should be embarrassed (unless you were a D1 athlete).

167/3.7 non-URM is not going to get you accepted to Berkeley, much less with money. You need to get into the 170s.

Big Dog wrote:A Stanford grad with a 167 should be embarrassed (unless you were a D1 athlete).

I'm pretty sure 167 is higher than the average of all the stanford LSAT takers.

Yeah, I wouldn't say "embarrassed". 167 is solid, but it is very likely that the OP can do better, and regardless should give it a better/more focused effort.

With Stanford pedigree you should be good to go with Berkeley adcomms and Michigan and Northwestern will probably bend favorably to the school (they list incoming schools on their brochures and could always use another Stanford grad) Georgetown and Cornell obv - with a bit of money 40-65k - Vandy 75k, WUSTL full ride etc. All that being said re-take - get 171+ and you'll be back at your Alma Mater ftw.

PrideandGlory1776 wrote:With Stanford pedigree you should be good to go with Berkeley adcomms and Michigan and Northwestern will probably bend favorably to the school (they list incoming schools on their brochures and could always use another Stanford grad) Georgetown and Cornell obv - with a bit of money 40-65k - Vandy 75k, WUSTL full ride etc. All that being said re-take - get 171+ and you'll be back at your Alma Mater ftw.

Uh, noap. Berk just doesn't accept non-URMs with those numbers. Sorry. Stanford fairy dust doesn't magically make that happen. Even if it did, there's no way OP would then get money, which seems to be a concern of OP's.

Also,

(they list incoming schools on their brochures and could always use another Stanford grad)

C'mon man, lol.

scottidsntknow wrote:I don't think you should be looking outside the T14 or the T20 with $$$. Going to USF or UC Hastings seems to me like the equivalent of literally burning your Stanford degree.

This. If you go to either one of those schools with a Stanford degree, you might as well have just went to your local state school to party for 4 years while maintaining a 4.0.

dissonance1848 wrote:You are retaking. This is not an option. You got into Stanford, got a 3.7, and do not have a 173+? Retake, a quintillion times over is the only acceptable option.

3.7 undergrad at Stanford is not as impressive as it sounds due to the ridiculous grade inflation (unless it's a hard science). A- is median at such schools. It's much harder to hit that sort of mark at, say, UC Berkeley.

That said, the advice remains the same.

NorCalLaw wrote:

dissonance1848 wrote:You are retaking. This is not an option. You got into Stanford, got a 3.7, and do not have a 173+? Retake, a quintillion times over is the only acceptable option.

3.7 undergrad at Stanford is not as impressive as it sounds due to the ridiculous grade inflation (unless it's a hard science). A- is median at such schools. It's much harder to hit that sort of mark at, say, UC Berkeley.

That said, the advice remains the same.

Yea I think the GPA is irrelevant, but getting into Stanford is the big accomplishment, and it would be a shame to waste.