Top Law Schools

Is there any reason to choose Stanford (just got off the waitlist) over Harvard (already deposited)?

Goals: national PI / policy work / impact lit / civil rights
Geographically flexible: DC, New York, or wherever the best opportunity is

I prefer Harvard's size -- larger network of classmates and alumni, size & breadth of faculty.
I prefer Stanford's weather -- I hate the cold!! But that doesn't seem like a sufficient reason.

They seem to be peer schools in just about every way, from the rankings to the finances. Is there any substantial reason to pick one over the other for national PI work, beyond just personal preference?

did u get FA offer from stanford already

!

james.bungles wrote:did u get FA offer from stanford already

I didn't get financial aid from Harvard and would not expect any from Stanford -- I won't bother applying. I will be financing law school through a mix of federal loans, savings, and parental loans. Harvard and Stanford seem to be roughly financially equal options, unless anyone has some perspective on any LRAP/LIPP differences that might play a role.

If you're 100% committed to PI work, go to whichever has the better LRAP.

Go to whichever school you like more. If I were in your shoes, I would pick HLS given the interest in DC and NY.

How snooty is your pitooty?

TheSpanishMain wrote:If you're 100% committed to PI work, go to whichever has the better LRAP.

From what I've read today, it seems that Stanford's LRAP is a bit more generous -- a slightly higher income level can receive full benefits, as well as a higher level of asset protection.

ph14 wrote:Go to whichever school you like more. If I were in your shoes, I would pick HLS given the interest in DC and NY.

I don't mind cold weather, and I love the northeast. I also love warm weather, and the Bay Area is about as perfect as it gets climate-wise.

Stanford doesn't have grades, so that's attractive. Stanford is "national", but slightly less national than Harvard. It's a smaller school; so it has fewer graduates working in any market. Just remember that your goals can change while you're in law school. You shouldn't give too much weight to them when choosing between HYS - the exception being that Yale is better for producing clerks. All three schools can get you any career you want.

I'd probably choose HLS. The northeast just seems like the ideal region in which to study law, and Harvard seems like the ideal school.

PDaddy wrote:

ph14 wrote:Go to whichever school you like more. If I were in your shoes, I would pick HLS given the interest in DC and NY.

I don't mind cold weather, and I love the northeast. I also love warm weather, and the Bay Area is about as perfect as it gets climate-wise.

Stanford doesn't have grades, so that's attractive. Stanford is "national", but slightly less national than Harvard. It's a smaller school; so it has fewer graduates working in any market.

I'd probably choose HLS, all things being equal ($$$, LRAP, access to markets, etc.). The northeast just seems like the ideal region in which to study law, and Harvard seems like the ideal school.

why are you responding like this question was directed toward you? OP said they preferred Stanford's climate

PDaddy wrote:

ph14 wrote:Go to whichever school you like more. If I were in your shoes, I would pick HLS given the interest in DC and NY.

I don't mind cold weather, and I love the northeast. I also love warm weather, and the Bay Area is about as perfect as it gets climate-wise.

Stanford doesn't have grades, so that's attractive. Stanford is "national", but slightly less national than Harvard. It's a smaller school; so it has fewer graduates working in any market.

I'd probably choose HLS, all things being equal ($$$, LRAP, access to markets, etc.). The northeast just seems like the ideal region in which to study law, and Harvard seems like the ideal school.

Wut. these are bad attempts to distinguish

Both schools "have grades" in the sense that you have a class rank based on your % of H, P, LP - although Harvard may give out more LP's and the top students receive DS. Neither "have grades" in the traditional alphabet.

Both schools are "national". Harvard has a greater presence in more markets due to longevity and size.

No school or region is "ideal" to study law. What does that even mean. Miami is an ideal region to study law. But UM is a shitty school to do so at. New Haven is a shitty place to be at any time, but Yale is arguably the 'best' place to study law in the country.

I agree with ph14 that for a DC/NY focused person, Harvard has a mild edge, but it's really more of an issue of preference - the schools do have very different atmospheres.

First, they are both national schools, but Harvard will have more graduates and deeper roots because it is larger.

Harvard is in a cooler climate, which means people spend more time indoors. That tends to be conducive to studying law. It's not that people fail if they study in the sun. I just believe that having not-so-nice weather can be an advantage. Harvard has more of an academic look and feel. Have you visited Stanford? It feels like a resort in Palm Springs! Some people may like that, but I wouldn't favor it as much. As for your Miami example, I would never study law there, precisely because of the weather and other trappings.

I am also partial to New York, and would value the ability to visit on weekends. San Francisco can get old really fast, as can L.A.. New York never does.

Just my opinions...

james.bungles wrote:
why are you responding like this question was directed toward you? OP said they preferred Stanford's climate

Isn't that how everyone tends to respond? They give their personal preferences. OP likes warm weather, great! That doesn't mean that he shouldn't consider the benefits of studying in a region with less outdoor activity. But preferences are just that...PREFERENCES!

OP also said that he didn't mind the cool weather of the northeast!

I have visited both schools. Stanford made me want to lounge...Harvard made me want to study! Just a personal opinion.

PDaddy wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

PDaddy wrote:

ph14 wrote:Go to whichever school you like more. If I were in your shoes, I would pick HLS given the interest in DC and NY.

I don't mind cold weather, and I love the northeast. I also love warm weather, and the Bay Area is about as perfect as it gets climate-wise.

Stanford doesn't have grades, so that's attractive. Stanford is "national", but slightly less national than Harvard. It's a smaller school; so it has fewer graduates working in any market.

I'd probably choose HLS, all things being equal ($$$, LRAP, access to markets, etc.). The northeast just seems like the ideal region in which to study law, and Harvard seems like the ideal school.

Wut. these are bad attempts to distinguish

Both schools "have grades" in the sense that you have a class rank based on your % of H, P, LP - although Harvard may give out more LP's and the top students receive DS. Neither "have grades" in the traditional alphabet.

Both schools are "national". Harvard has a greater presence in more markets due to longevity and size.

No school or region is "ideal" to study law. What does that even mean. Miami is an ideal region to study law. But UM is a shitty school to do so at. New Haven is a shitty place to be at any time, but Yale is arguably the 'best' place to study law in the country.

I agree with ph14 that for a DC/NY focused person, Harvard has a mild edge, but it's really more of an issue of preference - the schools do have very different atmospheres.

First, they are both national schools, but Harvard will have more graduates and deeper roots because it is larger.

Harvard is in a cooler climate, which means people spend more time indoors. That tends to be conducive to studying law. It's not that people fail if they study in the sun. I just believe that having not-so-nice weather can be an advantage. Harvard has more of an academic look and feel. Have you visited Stanford? It feels like a resort in Palm Springs! Some people may like that, but I wouldn't favor it as much. As for your Miami example, I would never study law there, precisely because of the weather and other trappings.

I am also partial to New York, and would value the ability to visit on weekends. San Francisco can get old really fast, as can L.A.. New York never does.

Just my opinions...

"academic look and feel"? Geez. Have you ever attended either of these schools, for undergrad or law school or otherwise? Just wondering if you could speak from more than a passerby experience. This is really a lot. You are entitled to your bizarre generalizations but OP, don't treat this loose verbiage as objective pros and cons. Both are great programs congrats.

jbagelboy wrote:
"academic look and feel"? Geez. Have you ever attended either of these schools, for undergrad or law school or otherwise? Just wondering if you could speak from more than a passerby experience. This is really a lot. You are entitled to your bizarre generalizations but OP, don't treat this loose verbiage as objective pros and cons. Both are great programs congrats.

That's essentially what I am saying! Who purported to give "objective pros and cons"? I didn't, and I really don't think that's always the best route to go. Much of what is said and read on TLS is VERY SUBJECTIVE!

Our opinions are not really that different. If you would quit making assumptions you would understand that. I am essentially telling him that it's going to boil down to how he feels about each school. I have been to both schools, and I regaled how I felt about them.

You need to re-read my comments! You are taking them somewhere into outer space. Didn't I say above that he should remember that any of HYS can get him whatever he wants? Don't overthink this, don't read my comments too literally, and take your meds.

If OP is choosing between HS, he should be considering EVERYTHING...not just the usual academic issues, LRAP, and the like. The intangibles make the differences.

I have my opinion just like you did. For me, Harvard's environment felt more competitive, whereas Stanford's environment, students, etc. felt very relaxed.

I mentioned the "feels" of the respective campuses, which is important. I also raised my preference for NY getaways on the weekends. If OP likes NY, he could consider that.

That's MY experience. And fwiw, raising Yale and Miami as counterexamples was a fail, because few if any students would ever weigh the two against each other, as is being done here.

Your problem is that you think you have it all figured out, and that YOU have the magic formula for OP to solve his problem.

Let me spare you from your delusion: YOU DON'T! In the end, OP is going to consider factors to which none of us is privy, and he will also give weight to intangibles. When choosing between HYS, that's how it is usually done.

PDaddy wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:
"academic look and feel"? Geez. Have you ever attended either of these schools, for undergrad or law school or otherwise? Just wondering if you could speak from more than a passerby experience. This is really a lot. You are entitled to your bizarre generalizations but OP, don't treat this loose verbiage as objective pros and cons. Both are great programs congrats.

That's essentially what I am saying! If you would quit making assumptions you would understand that. I am essentially telling him that it's going to boil down to how he feels about each school. I have been to both schools, and I regaled how I felt about them.

You need to re-read my comments! You are taking them somewhere into outer space. Didn't I say above that he should remember that any of HYS can get him whatever he wants? Don't overthink this, don't read my comments too literally, and take your meds.

If OP is choosing between HS, he should be considering EVERYTHING...not just the usual academic issues, LRAP, and the like. The intangibles make the differences.

I have my opinion just like you did. For me, Harvard's environment felt more competitive, whereas Stanford's environment, students, etc. felt very relaxed.

I mentioned the "feels" of the respective campuses, which is important. I also raised my preference for NY getaways on the weekends. If OP likes NY, he could consider that.

That's MY experience. And fwiw, raising Yale and Miami as counterexamples was a fail, because few if any students would ever weigh the two against each other, as is being done here.

Your problem is that you think you have it all figured out, and that YOU have the magic formula for OP to solve his problem.

Let me spare you from your delusion: YOU DON'T! In the end, OP is going to consider factors to which none of us is privy, and he will also give weight to intangibles. When choosing between HYS, that's how it is usually done.

wow; i mean, i really don't have anything that I feel is worth my time to respond to this. i didn't mean to offend you but you evidently were offended. good luck

zazmo2 wrote:Is there any reason to choose Stanford (just got off the waitlist) over Harvard (already deposited)?

Goals: national PI / policy work / impact lit / civil rights
Geographically flexible: DC, New York, or wherever the best opportunity is

I prefer Harvard's size -- larger network of classmates and alumni, size & breadth of faculty.
I prefer Stanford's weather -- I hate the cold!! But that doesn't seem like a sufficient reason.

They seem to be peer schools in just about every way, from the rankings to the finances. Is there any substantial reason to pick one over the other for national PI work, beyond just personal preference?

I wish I could give you advice. Regardless you're sitting in an ideal situation. Congrats on getting into both of these schools.

I also got into both schools this year, so perhaps some of my decision process will help out:

I much preferred size of YS when compared to H. I wanted smaller classes and sections and felt it would give me (and my personality) a much better shot to build strong relationships with both peers and professors.

Clinics and clerkships mattered to me. I really didn't see much difference among any of the 3 in placing the clerkships I wanted, but I felt it would be easier to distinguish myself at Y/S than at H. Clinics-wise, Yale won out because I could start basically right away, but Stanford has the SCOTUS and the Religious Liberty clinics, both of which I have a lot of interest in. That put SLS second with Harvard a distant (to me) third.

I'm pursuing a JD/MBA, so Stanford's excellence in each mattered a lot to me. Harvard got a ton of points for this as well. Yale's business school hurt in my personal calculation, but was definitely not a deal-breaker.

I did not expect any aid at Y/S after getting an offer of $0 from H. Then I got 5-figure aid offers from both Y and S (Y was higher), which made me very happy.

In the end, I ranked the law schools for myself as Y-S---------H. Business schools I ranked as S---H----Y. So Stanford became my choice.


I honestly wouldn't consider the climate at all, but that's a personal thing to me. Why would the climate I'd be in for 3 years matter more than all of the factors that will set me up the rest of my life? Climate as a tiebreaker if I saw all else equal, sure. But not an important factor.



Hope that helps. And make sure you talk to Faye about aid, she was very good about looking at mine and figuring out a way to get me something.




ETA: Forgot the most important part! It seems like you believe you're better off career-wise at Harvard. If that is true, that's what I'd do.

Well I just got offered an INSANE amount of aid from Stanford, considering that Harvard gave me none!

Unless Harvard is willing to negotiate aid (does that happen?), this choice just got very, very simple.

zazmo2 wrote:Well I just got offered an INSANE amount of aid from Stanford, considering that Harvard gave me none!

Unless Harvard is willing to negotiate aid (does that happen?), this choice just got very, very simple.

Congrats - I think that makes this an easy decision.

zazmo2 wrote:Well I just got offered an INSANE amount of aid from Stanford, considering that Harvard gave me none!

Unless Harvard is willing to negotiate aid (does that happen?), this choice just got very, very simple.

Tell Harvard and they'll look at your aid again. Normally they don't negotiate, but they will if Y/S's need based aid comes out with a different figure.

zazmo2 wrote:Well I just got offered an INSANE amount of aid from Stanford, considering that Harvard gave me none!

Unless Harvard is willing to negotiate aid (does that happen?), this choice just got very, very simple.

The 2nd or 3rd best school anywhere w/a huge aid package is nice ... but the weather's too sunny, it might just make you want to lounge. Better go HLS, where you'll crack the books.

zazmo2 wrote:Well I just got offered an INSANE amount of aid from Stanford, considering that Harvard gave me none!

Unless Harvard is willing to negotiate aid (does that happen?), this choice just got very, very simple.

I want to say I told you so, but CONGRATS is really what belongs here. If you want to go to Harvard, there's no harm in telling them what Stanford's giving you and trying.

Instinctive wrote:
Clinics-wise, Yale won out because I could start basically right away, but Stanford has the SCOTUS and the Religious Liberty clinics, both of which I have a lot of interest in. That put SLS second with Harvard a distant (to me) third.

Just FYI, Yale also has a SCOTUS clinic.

OP, congrats and take the money at SLS.