Top Law Schools

UMN OR WUSTL?

STILL WL AT UCLA (had an interview) and Northwestern

Any advice? getting the same scholarship from both.. any negotiation advice?

Read this thread, then post all info: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

MN and WUSTL are decent top tier schools. They don't have as good biglaw placement rates as their coastal peer schools (BC, BU, GW, Fordham), so you should assume you aren't going to be making 160k. There aren't as many Vault firms in the midwest outside of Chicago. However, given the cost of living in the twin cities and St. L, you can live pretty well at market rates at the local firms, some of which are very good (Dorsey/Faegre for MPLS; Thompson/Bryan for St. L).

The trick to WUSTL and MN is to keep your debt down.

Informative wrote:MN and WUSTL are decent top tier schools. They don't have as good biglaw placement rates as their coastal peer schools (BC, BU, GW, Fordham), so you should assume you aren't going to be making 160k. There aren't as many Vault firms in the midwest outside of Chicago. However, given the cost of living in the twin cities and St. L, you can live pretty well at market rates at the local firms, some of which are very good (Dorsey/Faegre for MPLS; Thompson/Bryan for St. L).

The trick to WUSTL and MN is to keep your debt down.

I would think that getting a job at one of those firms would still be incredibly difficult, yes?

Anyway, can't say anything until the OP provides us with actual information.

Informative wrote:MN and WUSTL are decent top tier schools. They don't have as good biglaw placement rates as their coastal peer schools (BC, BU, GW, Fordham), so you should assume you aren't going to be making 160k. There aren't as many Vault firms in the midwest outside of Chicago. However, given the cost of living in the twin cities and St. L, you can live pretty well at market rates at the local firms, some of which are very good (Dorsey/Faegre for MPLS; Thompson/Bryan for St. L).

The trick to WUSTL and MN is to keep your debt down.

This was informative.



And yes, Zuck is correct, it's tough sailing to land STL or Twin Cities "biglaw". Awesome outcome if you did I would think. More info needed for this OP...

1. where u from
2. where u wanna go
3. what is the actual amount of the equal offers

Informative wrote:MN and WUSTL are decent top tier schools. They don't have as good biglaw placement rates as their coastal peer schools (BC, BU, GW, Fordham), so you should assume you aren't going to be making 160k. There aren't as many Vault firms in the midwest outside of Chicago. However, given the cost of living in the twin cities and St. L, you can live pretty well at market rates at the local firms, some of which are very good (Dorsey/Faegre for MPLS; Thompson/Bryan for St. L).

The trick to WUSTL and MN is to keep your debt down.

The bolded is not true of WUSTL

C/O 2013 Biglaw:
Fordham - 34.1%
BC - 29.6%
WUSTL - 29%
GW - 28%
BU - 24.1%

You also should assume you aren't going to be making 160k if you go to any school with less than 50% of the class in big law/fedclerk

Don't go to UMN if you don't want to end up in Minnesota(or the Dakotas I suppose).

WUSTL has a big more reach, but don't go there if you want to end up outside of the Midwest

scottidsntknow wrote:

Informative wrote:MN and WUSTL are decent top tier schools. They don't have as good biglaw placement rates as their coastal peer schools (BC, BU, GW, Fordham), so you should assume you aren't going to be making 160k. There aren't as many Vault firms in the midwest outside of Chicago. However, given the cost of living in the twin cities and St. L, you can live pretty well at market rates at the local firms, some of which are very good (Dorsey/Faegre for MPLS; Thompson/Bryan for St. L).

The trick to WUSTL and MN is to keep your debt down.

The bolded is not true of WUSTL

C/O 2013 Biglaw:
Fordham - 34.1%
BC - 29.6%
WUSTL - 29%
GW - 28%
BU - 24.1%

You also should assume you aren't going to be making 160k if you go to any school with less than 50% of the class in big law/fedclerk

Every time there is an incorrect posting of WUSTL's big law numbers, Scotty'll be there to save the day.

Honestly though, randomly not a lot of respect for WUSTL, I've seen him have to make this correction at least three times now.

Also, UMN - 17%

WUSTL.
You should probably post fed clerkship + biglaw for a more accurate picture in which case WUSTL is like ~33% I believe and UMN is ~20% (this is off the top of my head)

Also if lay prestige matters, I've been told all over the east coast by my friends that WUSTL is a "really good school"
It's probably the UG and med school giving the law school a halo effect

eriedoctrine wrote:WUSTL.
You should probably post fed clerkship + biglaw for a more accurate picture in which case WUSTL is like ~33% I believe and UMN is ~20% (this is off the top of my head)

Also if lay prestige matters, I've been told all over the east coast by my friends that WUSTL is a "really good school"
It's probably the UG and med school giving the law school a halo effect

Yea obviously those are important, but I was just debating the "don't have as good biglaw placement rates" claim.

Hopefully OP doesn't take the responses ITT to be endorsements of either option. He has left out literally every piece of information relevant to this decision -- geography, goals, costs, financing, numbers, etc.

Brut wrote:Hopefully OP doesn't take the responses ITT to be endorsements of either option. He has left out literally every piece of information relevant to this decision -- geography, goals, costs, financing, numbers, etc.

This is why I have yet to make an endorsement.

Only go to UMN if you're okay with practicing in Minnesota and have a convincing answer when asked why you chose the state (unless you have ties).

To even get screener interviews at UMN's OCI, you need to be in the top 25% of the class (top 1/3 will get you a few maybe), and while you'll be in a better position than Hamline/St. Thomas/William Mitchell students for local biglaw, you will be competing with T14 students with Minnesota ties and students from neighboring states like Iowa and Wisconsin.

I just graduated from UMN and did land a job at a local "biglaw" firm, but a lot of my friends are still looking for work - even a few who are on law review and probably got better grades than I did. Several of my friends from class of 2013 are in state clerkships or part-time/contract positions at small local firms and still scrambling for full-time legal jobs - and they graduated in the top 25% of their year.

So keeping debt down is PARAMOUNT. If you can get a full or nearly full scholarship and keep COL pretty low, AND you want to practice in Minnesota, then go for it. Happy to answer any questions you have about UMN if you're still seriously considering it after reading this. I'm glad I went, but I recognize that I won the lotto, essentially, and from what I can tell I'm no more deserving than my job-hunting friends in any way, shape or form.

cusenation wrote:1. where u from
2. where u wanna go
3. what is the actual amount of the equal offers

California, would like to stay there but open to moving as I live abroad, might even like to work abroad..and I got 22,000 per year for a total of 66,000...

and now I was accepted at NU at sticker..really confused...can't retake

desichhori wrote:

cusenation wrote:1. where u from
2. where u wanna go
3. what is the actual amount of the equal offers

California, would like to stay there but open to moving as I live abroad, might even like to work abroad..and I got 22,000 per year for a total of 66,000...

and now I was accepted at NU at sticker..really confused...can't retake

why the eff not?

Fiero85 wrote:

desichhori wrote:

cusenation wrote:1. where u from
2. where u wanna go
3. what is the actual amount of the equal offers

California, would like to stay there but open to moving as I live abroad, might even like to work abroad..and I got 22,000 per year for a total of 66,000...

and now I was accepted at NU at sticker..really confused...can't retake

why the eff not?

Unless international terrorists are planning to kill you if you retake the test, I don't see any other compelling to not retake, besides having taken the test three times already.

yeah do not go to UMN for 66k discount...

Dude, HOW MANY THREADS ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE ABOUT THIS?

If you want to practice in MN then go to MN

If you want to practice anywhere else go to WUSTL. If you want Chicago biglaw you should have taken a full ride to UIUC which is (arguably) just as good as either of these schools if you're targeting Chicago.

Both schools are in cool/fun areas. WUSTL has better facilities and "lay prestige," Minnesota has all the benefits of a B1G university.

Just pick one and enjoy 3 years of misery, followed by a lifetime of misery working a small law gigs while trying to pay down 150k in debt.