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Hey All,

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Yesterday, I got off the Waitlist at Northwestern. Prior to this, I had already committed to Emory with a 20k/year scholarship because it was the highest ranked school I got into with a scholarship (I got into UCLA but with no money and was wait listed to all 4 T14s that I applied to.)

Here's a little bit about me:

-3.91/162 with BS in Management and BA in Poli Sci from a New York State School (+ 5 internships, with one being in investment banking)

-I'm from Long Island and everyone I know is in New York. Preferably, I want to practice in big law in new york (firm for at least the 1st 5 years) but since I ultimately want to work for a sports team (I already have a few contacts in the sports industry), I am willing to relocate for whatever team wants to sign my paycheck. If sports doesn't work out, corporate/transaction law is what I want to do. No PI for me.

-I am taking loans for tuition. Parents said that they will help out with as much living (room, board, "social life," etc.) as they can so I'm going to assume that they will cover about 65% of those expenses and the other 35% will come from additional loans.

-I already found a roommate and apartment in Atlanta, know a few people who are in their 2nd and 3rd years at Emory, and have connected with a few Emory alumni that also went to my undergrad school.

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So here's the ultimate question:

Do I uproot whatever "home" I already made for myself in Atlanta and go T14? Chicago is obviously a little bit closer to home (NY) than Atlanta is. In theory, Northwestern wins all the battles: T14, General Employment Rate, Strictly NY Employment Rate, Bigger City, Business-School Tilt (with my business degree, I feel like I can really thrive in Northwestern's system). Yet, since I am only 22, will I fit in with the older demographic at NU? Also, is the additional $70,000+ worth it?

What is everyone's opinion? I am going to try to get some more money out of Emory with this acceptance, but if they don't increase the money, I will really be at a stand-still.

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle for that

Thanks again!

I would first leverage the acceptance against Emory's current offer and try and get more money. Seems like you really like Emory, but I think at current costs Northwestern is the better bet. I wouldn't really suggest anyone paying sticker for any school (I know you're not sticker but close), but I like NU over Emory at these costs. With parental contribution, how much debt are you looking at from NU vs Emory?

BTW: dont worry about fitting in at NU. Their average age is like 1 year higher than the norm T-14. Worry about getting a job, not getting invited to the cool parties.

Haha I'm not worried so much about getting invited to "cool parties," as much I want to be able to make friends that I can hang out with every once in a while outside the classroom. If I was worried about that, I would have forgone law school altogether.

Really rough debt calculations (going to assume both schools for housing, food, books, etc will be 20k/year each and that parents will only give 50% of that just to make it easier):

Emory is 50k/year + 20k -20k -10k = 40k/year in debt or 120k for 3 years

Northwestern is 54k/year + 20k -10k = 64k/year in debt or 192k for 3 years

Then interest....

Actually NU will be 56k/year for 14-15 so add 6k to my initial projects to make it 198k

Emory at almost $143k in debt.

Tuition - $49,734
Living expenses - $20,000
Scholarship - ($20,000)
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L - $39,734
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $825
Plus interest over three years - $4,066

Net COA 2L (3.88% inflation) - $41,664
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $908
Plus interest over two years - $2,887

Net COA 3L (3.88% inflation) - $43,669
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $993
Plus interest over one year - $1,530

Total Net COA: $123,888
Total paid in loan fees: $3,386
Total paid in interest: $15,558
Total debt at repayment: $142,832

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

NU at almost $240k in debt

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at repayment: $239,975

By the way, all tuition includes mandatory fees, and figures assume no increase in living expenses year over year.

If your goal is biglaw, NU seems like the winner here. But $240k in debt, idk. If you were applying with a 3.1/172, it might be a defensible choice. But given that you could study hard for four months, try to raise the LSAT to a 170, and apply Northwestern ED full-ride (which you would likely get), I don't see how your current plan makes sense.

Good God, neither. Both schools are far too expensive and you have a 3.91 FFS

Big Dog wrote:

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

Don't listen to this. You have to attend this year. You don't want to be an ancient 23 year old 1L, for God's sakes, wandering around with your walker looking for yogurt to have with your metamucil.

Anyway, don't be an idiot. Neither of these options are good. Take a year off to work, study for a retake, and get that money. As a bonus, you won't be a k-jd with a boring, empty resume when you look for your first job.

Finally, forget HYS: T14 with money is where it's at, and with a 3.9 this is easily within your grasp.

Emory is a terrible choice if your goal is New York transactional law.
You need to retake and go to a better school that gives you a better chance of being hired without costing you $240,000.

I am in a big New York Law Firm and I don't recall ever meeting anyone from Emory. I would be extremely skeptical if I were interviewing you as to why you left New York.
You will struggle to get the job you want.

Just to add to what others said, absolutely sit out this cycle and retake, either of the choices you have now is just bad. You have a great GPA, the LSAT is a very learnable test and a better school with more money will easily be worth the year-off.

Let me have that 3.9 GPA

I won't waste it.

Go to Northwestern. Try your best. Stay focused and motivate yourself; have a good support group (family, friends, new acquaintances). You will succeed. Don't sit out a year. That's a year of your life in limbo. You have 50%+ chance of making $155k+ a year coming from Northwestern. Take the chance.


FUCK NO TO EMORY. Unless Emory gives you full tuition + stipend for living expenses

RETAKE!!!

Big Dog wrote:

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

I agree. No 22-year-old in your position should be in such a hurry.

If NU and Emory like you now they will love you next year ("Love" = +$$$$$$$) An additional 5 points could mean a world of difference, and 10 points could mean money at CLS or NYU. As for UCLA and the other T14's, they will love you too. Who knows? You could get into HYS with those additional 10 points.

Fwiw, I would never take a 3.9 to Emory unless I just sucked at the LSAT. You clearly don't, but you need to prepare more and retake. If you don't you will always wonder "what if...?

Post removed.

MistakenGenius wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

Big Dog wrote:

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

Don't listen to this. You have to attend this year. You don't want to be an ancient 23 year old 1L, for God's sakes, wandering around with your walker looking for yogurt to have with your metamucil.

Anyway, don't be an idiot. Neither of these options are good. Take a year off to work, study for a retake, and get that money. As a bonus, you won't be a k-jd with a boring, empty resume when you look for your first job.

Finally, forget HYS: T14 with money is where it's at, and with a 3.9 this is easily within your grasp.

Agreed. To be fair Pdiddy, a non-urm is not getting HYS so forget it (they're the only schools who truly care about retakes). But with a +170 LSAT score with your GPA is going to win some mad money at the rest of the T14. Hell, you could get a ruby or a hamilton with a high enough score. Why go to these schools and go a quarter million in debt for one or go to the one that basically tells its graduates to fuck off when you could have Chicago at less than 50k debt? But if you like the idea of being unemployed owing Uncle Sam that much moola, more power to you.

Harvard is certainly possible with the right LSAT score. YS probably out because of lack of softs anyway but a retake doesn't mean auto-ding from either school.

OP- you have got to retake. Neither choice as they stand now is good and not retaking will probably be one the biggest financial mistake you ever make in your life and potentially the biggest mistake you ever make, period.

You have to retake. Neither option is good, and a year off will be beneficial in many ways.

MistakenGenius wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

Big Dog wrote:

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

Don't listen to this. You have to attend this year. You don't want to be an ancient 23 year old 1L, for God's sakes, wandering around with your walker looking for yogurt to have with your metamucil.

Anyway, don't be an idiot. Neither of these options are good. Take a year off to work, study for a retake, and get that money. As a bonus, you won't be a k-jd with a boring, empty resume when you look for your first job.

Finally, forget HYS: T14 with money is where it's at, and with a 3.9 this is easily within your grasp.

Agreed. To be fair Pdiddy, a non-urm is not getting HYS so forget it (they're the only schools who truly care about retakes). But with a +170 LSAT score with your GPA is going to win some mad money at the rest of the T14. Hell, you could get a ruby or a hamilton with a high enough score. Why go to these schools and go a quarter million in debt for one or go to the one that basically tells its graduates to fuck off when you could have Chicago at less than 50k debt? But if you like the idea of being unemployed owing Uncle Sam that much moola, more power to you.

Plenty of retakers get into harvard with higher scores...


For the OP:

MistakenGenius wrote:
Agreed. To be fair Pdiddy, a non-urm is not getting HYS so forget it (they're the only schools who truly care about retakes). But with a +170 LSAT score with your GPA is going to win some mad money at the rest of the T14. Hell, you could get a ruby or a hamilton with a high enough score. Why go to these schools and go a quarter million in debt for one or go to the one that basically tells its graduates to fuck off when you could have Chicago at less than 50k debt? But if you like the idea of being unemployed owing Uncle Sam that much moola, more power to you.

I disagree. Even a non-URM can get into Harvard or Stanford with a 172/3.9. Yale might be another story. And CCN MVPNBD would be there with nice package$.

Not only does OP have a year to improve on his LSAT, he can also improve his softs and get LOR's specifically targeted at HYS, save up extra dough, and actually visit his target schools. If the admins and/or profs can put a face with the name it can help.

MistakenGenius wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

Big Dog wrote:

Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle

This cycle yes, but don't be stupid. Consider a year off in which you gain a few points and colleges will pay you to attend. You don't have to attend HYS, but why pay sticker/close to sticker when a better score could mean thousands more of pre-tax cash?

Don't listen to this. You have to attend this year. You don't want to be an ancient 23 year old 1L, for God's sakes, wandering around with your walker looking for yogurt to have with your metamucil.

Anyway, don't be an idiot. Neither of these options are good. Take a year off to work, study for a retake, and get that money. As a bonus, you won't be a k-jd with a boring, empty resume when you look for your first job.

Finally, forget HYS: T14 with money is where it's at, and with a 3.9 this is easily within your grasp.

Agreed. To be fair Pdiddy, a non-urm is not getting HYS so forget it (they're the only schools who truly care about retakes). But with a +170 LSAT score with your GPA is going to win some mad money at the rest of the T14. Hell, you could get a ruby or a hamilton with a high enough score. Why go to these schools and go a quarter million in debt for one or go to the one that basically tells its graduates to fuck off when you could have Chicago at less than 50k debt? But if you like the idea of being unemployed owing Uncle Sam that much moola, more power to you.

I know a guy with a disciplinary cancel and a below median highest LSAT at Yale. They may care some, but it's hardly disqualifying.

lboogy480 wrote:I'm from Long Island and everyone I know is in New York. Preferably, I want to practice in Big Law in New York (firm for at least the 1st 5 years) but since I ultimately want to work for a sports team (I already have a few contacts in the sports industry), I am willing to relocate for whatever team wants to sign my paycheck. If sports doesn't work out, corporate/transaction law is what I want to do. No PI for me.

lboogy480 wrote:Northwestern wins all the battles: T14, General Employment Rate, Strictly NY Employment Rate, Bigger City, Business-School Tilt (with my business degree, I feel like I can really thrive in Northwestern's system).

My question is why on Earth are you considering going to Emory if NYC Big Law is your goal? I guess that is sort of explained by this ....

lboogy480 wrote:Also, don't tell me to retake the LSAT and only go to HYS - it's a bit late in the cycle for that

OP: You seem to be a smart person who can run numbers. So you understand how much 200K in debt is going to suck. You also seem to have at least some job prospects for the year that wouldn't involve working at Walmart. So I'm not quite sure why you have to run off to law school at 22. Also remember that even though work experience isn't required for NYC biglaw, if you have mediocre grades it could be what saves your application.

Dude just man up retake and get a $165 K scholarship from northwestern or some other option.