Page 1 of 2
Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:25 pm
by The Dark Kite
If trolls want to troll, fine. But I'd really appreciate some insightful feedback.
Should I attend Illinois with a full tuition scholarship or Michigan at sticker?
It's difficult to think about passing up on a T14 but graduating without debt is extremely appealing.
I'd like to work in the Chicago market.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:32 pm
by transferror
Illinois hands down
Post removed.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:36 pm
by MistakenGenius
Post removed.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:38 pm
by Nova
MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need.
but do you have to be such a douche about it
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:40 pm
by Nova
answer these questions
[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:51 pm
by The Dark Kite
Nova wrote:answer these questions
[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
-I'll be using my savings and my parents will be helping me out if I go to Illy. I'll be taking out loans if I go to Michigan because none of us can afford the COA of Mich at sticker.
-I worked in NYC's financial district in the legal sector for a couple of years and have made pretty good contacts at some of the bigger firms downtown but probably not strong enough to email for a job
-I'd like to work in big law for a bit/eventually make my way into a general counsel's office for a reputable business
-I'm not retaking the LSAT. I see the value in that suggestion and recognize it as a go-to on TLS, but I've thought long and hard about it and there's no way I'm taking a third year off. I'm already 100% set on attending law school in 2014.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:53 pm
by francesfarmer
The Dark Kite wrote:Nova wrote:answer these questions
[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
-I'll be using my savings and my parents will be helping me out if I go to Illy. I'll be taking out loans if I go to Michigan because none of us can afford the COA of Mich at sticker.
-I worked in NYC's financial district in the legal sector for a couple of years and have made pretty good contacts at some of the bigger firms downtown but probably not strong enough to email for a job
-I'd like to work in big law for a bit/eventually make my way into a general counsel's office for a reputable business
-I'm not retaking the LSAT. I see the value in that suggestion and recognize it as a go-to on TLS, but I've thought long and hard about it and there's no way I'm taking a third year off. I'm already 100% set on attending law school in 2014.
You did not answer the first question.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:07 pm
by The Dark Kite
francesfarmer wrote:
You did not answer the first question.
Missed it! Sorry:
COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$75k versus MICH which will be ~$225k.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:09 pm
by unodostres
how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:10 pm
by The Dark Kite
unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:12 pm
by Nova
The Dark Kite wrote:francesfarmer wrote:
You did not answer the first question.
Missed it! Sorry:
COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$50k versus MICH which will be ~$200k.
what are Mich big law odds? like 50/50? 60/40?
id be way to scared to make that bet.
otoh if you wouldn't be happy with typical nonbiglaw outcomes, you should avoid UIUC entirely
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:20 pm
by mw115
Ann Arbor is more expensive than Urbana-Champaign and if you really want to practice in Chicago your prospects aren't that starkly different whether you go to Illinois or Michigan, especially if you do well at Illinois. If you screw up, than you have no debt from Illinois, but would be saddled with $150-$200 from Michigan to pay off with no easily attainable means of doing so. So yeah, hands down Illinois.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:26 pm
by rad lulz
Your career goals say mich
The cost of mich says Illinois
Retake or reevaluate your career goals
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:27 pm
by unodostres
The Dark Kite wrote:unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.
good luck then. wrong choice thou
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:30 pm
by Ramius
unodostres wrote:The Dark Kite wrote:unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.
good luck then. wrong choice thou
+1. Go to Illinois, so if things don't work out, you won't be effed. Be prepared for a non-big law outcome though.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:31 pm
by McAvoy
Don't go to Michigan at that price.
If you're dead-set on Chicago biglaw but you're not interested in non-biglaw career paths, IUIC is fine, but be ready to drop out post OCI if you don't get like top third in 1L/strikeout.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:52 pm
by transferror
MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need. What are your goals? Numbers?
Name a situation where Michigan at sticker makes sense over a full ride at Illinois for someone who wants to be in Chicago...
I agree I should've known LSAT/GPA/number of takes first, but come on dude
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:55 pm
by jbagelboy
I thought you were going to minnesota or something
nvm, that's shepard. got the two of you confused.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:59 pm
by jbagelboy
honestly there are plenty of kids from local schools like Illinois at large firms in their secondary market. If we can't say "go to U of Illinois on full scholarship for chicago private sector," what are we here for?
Go to Illinois, with the understanding that if you make it into top quarter of the class, you've got a solid shot at your goal, and if you don't, it's not happening.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:03 pm
by rad lulz
.
Post removed.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:43 pm
by MistakenGenius
Post removed.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:53 pm
by star fox
I would say go for Illinois. Aim for good grades but immediately start thinking of a backup since odds on BigLaw will be tough.
Don't do Michigan at sticker. That's a coin flip chance of being like mega screwed. If you really want to go T14 then re-take.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:08 pm
by 03152016
The Dark Kite wrote:francesfarmer wrote:
You did not answer the first question.
Missed it! Sorry:
COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$75k versus MICH which will be ~$225k.
Don't be overly optimistic. LST shows total debt-financed COA at $272k non-resident, $261k resident. LS22's cost calculator show's total debt financed COA at $258k non-resident, $247k resident.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:13 pm
by jbagelboy
MistakenGenius wrote:transferror wrote:MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need. What are your goals? Numbers?
Name a situation where Michigan at sticker makes sense over a full ride at Illinois for someone who wants to be in Chicago...
I agree I should've known LSAT/GPA/number of takes first, but come on dude
I've got a damn respiratory virus and am in a shit mood today. I'm sorry for calling you an idiot. That was overboard. OP, I don't know what to tell you. I wanted to know more because I suspected this was the case. Illinois is likely not going to get you where you want to be, but Michigan has become one of the worst performing T14s and it's difficult to justify sticker there. Here are your two options, you go to Illinois without too much debt, but you only have a 25% chance of achieving your goals. Or you go to Michigan, have a much higher chance of reaching your goals, but will be crippled by debt and forced into certain jobs. You should retake and we all know you don't have any good enough excuse other than laziness, but since you're content to fuck yourself over, I'm going to say Michigan. You might be crushed with debt for a while, but at least you'll have a reasonable shot at your goals. It doesn't matter if you don't have much debt if you're not able to do what you want to do with your JD.
The thing is "goals" aren't really good enough to justify debt for 0Ls because they do not know what these goals consist of. Making it to a large firm is not what a prospective law student believes it to be; same goes for clerking in chambers or working for the department of justice. Low debt is much more freeing in this circumstance than the added chance at "goals" one does not truly comprehend. Also this isn't illinois v yale. There's a very real chance of striking out at michigan, especially for someone who has shown reluctance to retake and hit the par of the rest of the class.
Re: Michigan vs. Illinois
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:15 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
Illinois and its not close