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BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:57 pm
by 2014applicant
I am stuck on deciding between Boston University and UC Irvine.
Assuming a large firm is the ultimate goal, with the understanding that it will be a long shot at either, which would be the wiser choice (assuming COA is equal)? I'm aware BU has the edge per the most recent LST Score Report (24.4% for BU versus 15.5% for Irvine). However, I can't ignore the 17.9% federal clerkship rate for UC Irvine, and I'm assuming a federal clerkship could serve as a springboard to a large firm afterwards. I understand the clerkship percentage is inflated due to a small class size, but I have heard the Class of 2017 will be capped at 90 - 100? Can anyone confirm?
I would like to end up practicing someplace urban and would be fine with LA/Boston/NYC. A retake/reapply is not an option.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:01 pm
by 03152016
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:03 pm
by Mullens
In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:01 pm
by ymmv
In before retake.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:21 am
by twenty
UCI's incoming class will almost definitely be larger than 90-100 people.
Furthermore, if you're making a decision based on a 17% chance of getting a job that will last you a single year, that's silliness.
How much are you paying for both? Both of these are solid choices if they're sub-75k COA, but terrible choices if they're 150k+.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:21 am
by phillywc
Where are you from? Being "fine" with practicing wherever is one thing but not nearly good enough for picking law schools.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:01 am
by jingosaur
If Biglaw is your goal, you need to go to a T14.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:20 am
by BigZuck
Retake/reapply
The fact that you're actually considering both is not a great sign, there's not a whole lot of people out there for whom both schools could possibly make sense. Also, (and this is the most important point) big law chances are too remote.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:00 am
by prāna
twenty wrote:UCI's incoming class willalmost definitely be larger than 90-100 people.
Furthermore, if you're making a decision based on a 17% chance of getting a job that will last you a single year, that's silliness.
How much are you paying for both? Both of these are solid choices if they're sub-75k COA, but terrible choices if they're 150k+.
FTFY
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:19 am
by Mullens
Regardless of class size, UCI is an almost indefensible choice if you want biglaw.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:16 pm
by Informative
If you want to work on the west coast, go with UC Irvine. If you want to work in Boston, go to BU.
If you're open to either, go with the cheapest of the two.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:09 am
by Cycy
I'm currently a student at UC Irvine. The incoming class will be, roughly, 90 students. Just understand that no matter what school you go to, your hard work will be what paves your way to something like big law. It's not at all impossible to wind up in big law if you go to Irvine. Keep in mind that when it says 15 or 17% of people got Big Law, it doesn't mean the other 85% of people were disappointed. The desires of students at UC Irvine are fairly diverse; I don't think more than roughly a third to half of students seriously consider Big Law, because there are a multitude of other viable options which don't equate to complete slavery.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:12 am
by Cycy
Having said all of the above, I would suggest that you consider whether you would prefer to live in the Boston area or the southern California region. Which school you go to will likely determine your location of employment, though it is not completely definitive. Moreover, cost should be your biggest factor--if one school gives you significantly more money than the other, pick that damn school.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:19 am
by Yukos
BigZuck wrote:The fact that you're actually considering both is not a great sign, there's not a whole lot of people out there for whom both schools could possibly make sense. Also, (and this is the most important point) big law chances are too remote.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:04 am
by banjo
Retake the LSAT. Big law is so, so much easier to get out of a top school than out of BU/Irvine. I can't believe people would rather gun for a federal clerkship to get big law than take one three-hour reading test.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 am
by McAvoy
If you want biglaw your path will be far easier with a retake.
We can assume you don't have great scholarships at either because you're probably picking between the best schools you got in to, as (unless you spent big chunks of your life in Boston and OC) they are pretty random choices.
At any rate, if your debt load upon graduation would be around or north of 100K, this is probably going to be a terrible decision. If you've got a good scholarship and want to blow your savings, fire away, I guess, but don't expect biglaw.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:48 pm
by Yukos
banjo wrote:Retake the LSAT. Big law is so, so much easier to get out of a top school than out of BU/Irvine. I can't believe people would rather gun for a federal clerkship to get big law than take one three-hour reading test.
Yeah getting a fed clerkship is incredibly difficult, even out of T14s. It makes landing biglaw look like a joke.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:41 pm
by InTheHouse
Cycy wrote:I'm currently a student at UC Irvine. The incoming class will be, roughly, 90 students. Just understand that no matter what school you go to, your hard work will be what paves your way to something like big law. It's not at all impossible to wind up in big law if you go to Irvine. Keep in mind that when it says 15 or 17% of people got Big Law, it doesn't mean the other 85% of people were disappointed. The desires of students at UC Irvine are fairly diverse; I don't think more than roughly a third to half of students seriously consider Big Law, because there are a multitude of other viable options which don't equate to complete slavery.
Weren't a fifth of the most recent class unemployed 9 months after graduation? I hope some of them were disappointed ....
Also, how does someone gunning for Big Law end up choosing between BU and Chemerinsky's vanity exercise?
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:58 pm
by 2014applicant
I've been living in OC for close to three years, with the majority of that time spend working at an OC firm. The BU scholarship is somewhat higher, but I likely won't be graduating with debt from either school.
Save for those who obtained clerkships, it appears all Irvine Class of 2013 graduates ended up in California. Does anybody know more specific city placements within California? I have a list of all summer/post-graduate positions for Irvine graduates, but I haven't been able to find something filtered down to post-graduate positions only. I'm apprehensive about spending another three years in the area, and certainly don't want to stay here forever. On the other hand, although BU is still considered a regional school, they do at least have some placement in NY and CA.
I understand a large firm should only be considered a remote possibility for both schools. However, since the overall employment numbers (i.e. LST employment score) are more or less the same for both schools, I am trying to make better sense of the more specific outcomes of graduates. Here, it seems like Irvine may have the edge, as their overall placement in large firms and federal clerkships combined is higher. Also, no graduates are in school-funded jobs, whereas BU's rate is pretty high. I realize a class of 84 graduates should be taken with a grain of salt, but if the Class of 2017 will only be 90 - 100 people, it seems these high numbers should be taken into consideration.
Also, is it fair to assume Irvine will gain full accreditation in 2014?
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:06 pm
by McAvoy
We're still missing details. Are you going to spend a personal fortune to not end with any debt?
In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:45 pm
by BentleyLittle
2014applicant wrote: Also, is it fair to assume Irvine will gain full accreditation in 2014?
UCI was granted full accreditation yesterday, fwiw.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:03 pm
by twenty
Do UCI IF AND ONLY IF all these conditions are met:
1) You want to work in Southern California when you graduate, and want to stay there for the foreseeable future.
2) You will have less than 100k in student loan debt. This number should include three years of COA at 24k/year plus an additional 10k in bar loans.
3) You either have no interest in, or explicitly do not want biglaw/A3 clerkship.
4) You actually want to be a lawyer.
Do BU IF AND ONLY IF all these conditions are met:
1) You want to work in Boston when you graduate, and want to stay there for the foreseeable future.
2) You will have less than 100k in student loan debt. This number should include three years of COA at 22k/year plus an additional 10k in bar loans.
3) You either have no interest in, or explicitly do not want biglaw/A3 clerkship.
4) You actually want to be a lawyer.
---
If any of these conditions is untrue for you (i.e, you want biglaw/A3, or you won't graduate with <100k debt, you don't want to practice in the region/at all) you absolutely must retake and reapply.
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:14 pm
by 03152016
twenty wrote:IF AND ONLY IF
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:29 pm
by twenty
yeahhh; the contrapositive would be "If you don't go to UCI, then the conditions weren't met" because of the sufficiency element, which may not be true.
retaking on Monday for shits and giggles. D:
Re: BU versus UC Irvine
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:33 pm
by 03152016
twenty wrote:yeahhh; the contrapositive would be "If you don't go to UCI, then the conditions weren't met" because of the sufficiency element, which may not be true.
retaking on Monday for shits and giggles. D:
Good luck, kill it!