FIU vs Loyola New Orleans Forum

[jswaller00]

My decision is down to FIU in Miami and Loyola in New Orleans. No scholarship at FIU but a 50% scholarship at Loyola which makes the cost of attendance virtually the same since I'm a Florida resident.

Would it be better to go to a higher ranked school at FIU or go to Loyola where I feel I have a better chance of standing out and being in the top of my class?

[worldtraveler]

don't go

or wait a year and retake

[HRomanus]

This is wrong on literally every level.

1. FIU (#100) is ranked worse than Loyola (#87) in USNWR.
2. Rankings are meaningless
3. What actually matters, their employment outcomes, are almost equally bad. At FIU, you are nearly guaranteed a low-paying job at a small firm in Florida. At Loyola, you have a chance at BigLaw, but will most likely end up under- or unemployed.
4. Don't go to law school based on ranking.
5. Don't go to law school based on probability of being at the top of your class.
6. You should never pay sticker at FIU.
7. You should never pay 50% tuition at Loyola.
8. Excepting T14, you should only go to a law school where you want to practice. You've literally chosen two on the opposite side of the country.

You should retake your LSAT and apply to law schools that fit your employment goals.

[rad lulz]

don't go

or wait a year and retake

[jswaller00]

This is wrong on literally every level.

1. FIU (#100) is ranked worse than Loyola (#87) in USNWR.
2. Rankings are meaningless
3. What actually matters, their employment outcomes, are almost equally bad. At FIU, you are nearly guaranteed a low-paying job at a small firm in Florida. At Loyola, you have a chance at BigLaw, but will most likely end up under- or unemployed.
4. Don't go to law school based on ranking.
5. Don't go to law school based on probability of being at the top of your class.
6. You should never pay sticker at FIU.
7. You should never pay 50% tuition at Loyola.
8. Excepting T14, you should only go to a law school where you want to practice. You've literally chosen two on the opposite side of the country.

You should retake your LSAT and apply to law schools that fit your employment goals.

I appreciate your input, but you didn't read my post correctly. I said that it was Loyola in New Orleans not California. I have retaken the LSAT and believe that is the best I'm going to do so I have no plans on retaking it.

[Mullens]

If these are your best options and you refuse to retake, you really shouldn't go. You will be going $200,000 into debt for a coin-flip chance at even becoming employed as a lawyer. If you manage to even get a job as a lawyer, it almost certainly won't pay enough to pay off your debt; and possibly not enough to even service your debt while living comfortably. I cannot overstate how much you are risking ruining your entire life by attending either of these schools at the listed costs. Please don't do it.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... eworleans/

[HRomanus]

This is wrong on literally every level.

1. FIU (#100) is ranked worse than Loyola (#87) in USNWR.
2. Rankings are meaningless
3. What actually matters, their employment outcomes, are almost equally bad. At FIU, you are nearly guaranteed a low-paying job at a small firm in Florida. At Loyola, you have a chance at BigLaw, but will most likely end up under- or unemployed.
4. Don't go to law school based on ranking.
5. Don't go to law school based on probability of being at the top of your class.
6. You should never pay sticker at FIU.
7. You should never pay 50% tuition at Loyola.
8. Excepting T14, you should only go to a law school where you want to practice. You've literally chosen two on the opposite side of the country.

You should retake your LSAT and apply to law schools that fit your employment goals.

I appreciate your input, but you didn't read my post correctly. I said that it was Loyola in New Orleans not California. I have retaken the LSAT and believe that is the best I'm going to do so I have no plans on retaking it.

This changes nothing substantive. In fact, Loyola in NOLA has worse employment rankings than Loyola in California.

[jswaller00]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

[unodostres]

because people are dumb

[HRomanus]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

Because they utilize manipulative marketing to draw in students who don't have the LSAT and/or GPA to attend better institutions but dream of being a lawyer. As TLS shows, most law school applicants are ignorant about the state of the legal employment field and, specifically, how bad certain schools are.

[BigZuck]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

It's about average/likely outcomes, not absolutes

[Young Marino]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

This question is something TLS cannot answer because according to many on this board, "those lawyers don't really exist" Which is complete bullshit. What are your goals OP? Before attending law school, you should have some type of idea of what area of law and what market(s) you can see yourself practicing in. By attending either one of these schools you will likely have to stay in the home market for some time. Can you see yourself living in Miami or New Orleans for a while? You have solid options but I'd like to hear more about what your goals are. Based on what I've seen so far from your posts, I'd go to FIU as you get instate tuition and they have a solid and the better employment score on LST. Do you have family in Miami you can live with to save on living expenses?

[Gooner91]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

This question is something TLS cannot answer because according to many on this board, "those lawyers don't really exist" Which is complete bullshit. What are your goals OP? Before attending law school, you should have some type of idea of what area of law and what market(s) you can see yourself practicing in. By attending either one of these schools you will likely have to stay in the home market for some time. Can you see yourself living in Miami or New Orleans for a while? You have solid options but before putting in my 2 cents, I'd like to hear more about what your goals are but based on what I've seen so far, I'd go to FIU as you get instate tuition and they have a solid and the better employment score on LST. Do you have family in Miami you can live with to save on living expenses?

Actually by giving the low employment numbers for these schools TLS is saying that lawyers from these schools exist, it is just much less than actually graduate from the school. For instance less than half of the graduates at Loyola are lawyers who graduated from that school.
The OP does not have "solid options", why are you trying to mess up the OP's life? Did he run over your dog or something?

If you want to practice "small law" in LA or FL try to retake for a scholly at LSU, UF, or FSU.

[HRomanus]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

This question is something TLS cannot answer because according to many on this board, "those lawyers don't really exist" Which is complete bullshit. What are your goals OP? Before attending law school, you should have some type of idea of what area of law and what market(s) you can see yourself practicing in. By attending either one of these schools you will likely have to stay in the home market for some time. Can you see yourself living in Miami or New Orleans for a while? You have solid options but I'd like to hear more about what your goals are. Based on what I've seen so far from your posts, I'd go to FIU as you get instate tuition and they have a solid and the better employment score on LST. Do you have family in Miami you can live with to save on living expenses?

YM: please stop. Are you an idiot or are you an asshole? Your advice leaves those two options.

FIU COA at sticker is around $150k, which I assume OP will finance via loans. The average FIU grad is either under/unemployed or working in a law firm below 10 people - salary situations which at best start around $60,000. At best only 8% of graduates are making anything close to six figures. Forget his goals, OP cannot service $150,000 of debt with the most likely employment outcomes from FIU.

If you want to do a full analysis, don't ignore 3 years of lost income at average for college grad ($45k/year). So total cost is $285k, discouting interest on loans. In what world is a $60,000 job worth $285,000 in debt and lost income? Are you fucking insane?

[PepperJack]

When the odds are under 50% you will get a job for 50,000 pre-taxes, and you are running 8% interest per year on 100,000 plus in loans, you are setting yourself up for failure. Legal work is rewarding, often team oriented and even fun, but is long hours and a grind. At the top end people do it, because they and their family are accustomed to a certain lifestyle. If people had to forfeit much of a non-work life just to pay their rent while their loans continue accruing interest without ever getting paid down, they would be very depressed. In the ideal scenario from these schools at that price, in a decade from now you're able to pay rent on a cheap college student type apartment while making the interest payments on student loans you never pay off. That is the "success" option you're going for. If that's your dream then by all means.

[TheSpanishMain]

Gun to my head, Loyola, so you don't have to join Young Marino at FIU and listen to him constantly trying to justify his bad decisions.

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

This question is something TLS cannot answer because according to many on this board, "those lawyers don't really exist" Which is complete bullshit.

TLS thinks non-BigLaw lawyers don't exist? Don't you get bored arguing with some TLS consensus you've made up in your head?

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

No one is saying NO ONE succeeds. Just that the odds are not in your favor.

[Gooner91]

because people are dumb

You have solid options

hmm.
We have contrasting viewpoints.

[transferror]

OP, you need better options or or don't go at all. I don't even necessarily mean higher ranked schools. If you're going to ignore the correct advice (retake or don't go), then at least wait a year and try to get a full scholarship to literally any school in Florida, which shouldn't be difficult because there are tons of shitty schools there. I say this because a 1/3 chance at legal employment from Ave Maria/Barry/Florida A&M at 60k debt or less (or nothing if you can live with family) is still better than a 1/2 chance at legal employment with 150k+ in debt from Loyola/FIU. At least then you could get out of the legal field and still have a shot at managing your debt, or be lucky enough to snag a small firm job and then be a lawyer and still able to manage your debt. This isn't objectively good advice, but I'm afraid it's the best you'll take.

YM, stop trying to ruin pp.'s lives. Retake or don't go is the TCR, but at least give decent shitty advice if you're going to give shitty advice (see above).

[Gooner91]

Not that it will change my advice but what are the scholly stips?

[bizzike]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

Because they get paid up front and optimism bias.

[star fox]

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

Optimism bias + this whole law school transparency movement only really becoming a thing the last couple years. There's a reason enrollment is way down across the board.

[timmyd]

Op, don't do either of these man. I went to Loyno my 1l year and luckily got out but only because of luck frankly. Luck is what separates the top 5 and 6% and the top 10 and 11% and so on. At the top schools its not a huge deal, but it is at a school like Loyno. Don't fool yourself into thinking you will be able to get top of the class just because its lower ranked...past UT/Vandy/UCLA or so the rankings are meaningless. I did really well at Loyno and am now doing really well at UT which is based on a number of factors but I think its partially based on the fact that Loyno (like all law schools) has some really smart dedicated kids towards the top. There is just no guarantee you will be able to make that cut and the fallout from not making it will be disastrous. I know lots of peeps from my 1l class working for free this summer despite being nearly 180k in debt. I also know people in the top 10% that struck out (one did a fed clerkship though after striking out). The point is that people on this site are usually right and they are right about these options.
Now with all that negative stuff out of the way I will say that Loyola does do well in Nola. If you know that you want to live and work in Nola forever than its not a bad school to go to for free. If you get in the top 10%/law review than you will probably get a nice gig. If not, prepare for some unfortunate years.

[nebula666]

Law school isn't for everyone. I wouldn't go to either of these even for free.

[Young Marino]

Gun to my head, Loyola, so you don't have to join Young Marino at FIU and listen to him constantly trying to justify his bad decisions.

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

This question is something TLS cannot answer because according to many on this board, "those lawyers don't really exist" Which is complete bullshit.

TLS thinks non-BigLaw lawyers don't exist? Don't you get bored arguing with some TLS consensus you've made up in your head?

I appreciate the honest responses. Based on what you are saying how do these schools even thrive or maintain any type of student body if no one is able to support themselves after graduation?

No one is saying NO ONE succeeds. Just that the odds are not in your favor.

Lol funny you say that Spanish Man. I actually decided on FIU this morning after they offered a sweet scholly. I'll be living with family down there so Total COA= $35k FIU ftw! I know I've bashed on FIU the last few weeks and I'm still not sold on the school entirely but I'll enroll for $35k. It's probably some undergrad hate towards them as they were the main rival to hate back in college

[TheSpanishMain]

Well, if you're going to go there, good on you for not taking on a lot of debt at least.