Top Law Schools

How does a school make moves up that quickly and will students choosing to attend a school like that be hampered because even though they have seen significant increases in their ranking relatively quickly, perception may remain that it's a low T3 school?

USNWR can vary wildly from year to year.

Students should view Tulsa in the exact same light: it's a local school to potentially attend if you have a full scholarship and you want to practice in the local area. That dynamic doesn't change with the USNWR movement.

TheSpanishMain wrote:USNWR can vary wildly from year to year.

Students should view Tulsa in the exact same light: it's a local school to potentially attend if you have a full scholarship and you want to practice in the local area. That dynamic doesn't change with the USNWR movement.

Does full scholarship just imply tuition or does that mean tuition plus stipend?

ElliotNessquire wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:USNWR can vary wildly from year to year.

Students should view Tulsa in the exact same light: it's a local school to potentially attend if you have a full scholarship and you want to practice in the local area. That dynamic doesn't change with the USNWR movement.

Does full scholarship just imply tuition or does that mean tuition plus stipend?

I have no idea what Tulsa does or doesn't offer, but I imagine cost of living is fairly low. I think if you can keep your total debt under the average first year salary of a small-law associate (probably like 40k) it's a defensible decision. Again, assuming you're a local who wants to stay local.

ElliotNessquire wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:USNWR can vary wildly from year to year.

Students should view Tulsa in the exact same light: it's a local school to potentially attend if you have a full scholarship and you want to practice in the local area. That dynamic doesn't change with the USNWR movement.

Does full scholarship just imply tuition or does that mean tuition plus stipend?

"Full scholarship" is usually just tuition & fees.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

ElliotNessquire wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:USNWR can vary wildly from year to year.

Students should view Tulsa in the exact same light: it's a local school to potentially attend if you have a full scholarship and you want to practice in the local area. That dynamic doesn't change with the USNWR movement.

Does full scholarship just imply tuition or does that mean tuition plus stipend?

I have no idea what Tulsa does or doesn't offer, but I imagine cost of living is fairly low. I think if you can keep your total debt under the average first year salary of a small-law associate (probably like 40k) it's a defensible decision. Again, assuming you're a local who wants to stay local.

That's great input, thanks. As it sits now, I think I could stay right at $50k borrowed to attend Tulsa, making it a good option.

I would not go to Tulsa unless you have specific connections to a legal office in Oklahoma already set up. Without that, it's going to be very difficult to find someone to interview for, much less work for, no matter what its ranking is.

Tanicius wrote:I would not go to Tulsa unless you have specific connections to a legal office in Oklahoma already set up. Without that, it's going to be very difficult to find someone to interview for, much less work for, no matter what its ranking is.

Why do you say that?

To give Tulsa some credit, they have a program where if you live in one of 12 select states you automatically get a $18,000 scholarship. http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/college ... rship.aspx So if the goal is not big law, and a small firm in Oklahoma, Tulsa doesn't have to be a terrible choice if you can get an additional scholarship tacked on to the Access to Legal Education Scholarship.

ElliotNessquire wrote:

Tanicius wrote:I would not go to Tulsa unless you have specific connections to a legal office in Oklahoma already set up. Without that, it's going to be very difficult to find someone to interview for, much less work for, no matter what its ranking is.

Why do you say that?

Oklahoma is mostly rural and is one of the most sparsely populated states in the country. There is so little demand for legal work that it's prohibitively risky to vie for a job in the state. Firms from Dallas or Houston aren't coming up to Tulsa to interview the city's law students. If you don't get a job in Tulsa itself, with literally one or two firm options that exist in the city, then you're pretty much screwed, unless: (a) your game plan was to join a family/friend's shop before you even went to school; or (b) start your own firm right after graduation.

Full scholarship actually means tuition only.

Many schools, particularly state schools, are hampered by restrictions related to whether or not they can negate student fees. These fees are a tangible cost to the law school -- in other words actual money transfers between the law school and the larger university.

As a result most full scholarships don't cover the fees.

CoffeeIsLife wrote:To give Tulsa some credit, they have a program where if you live in one of 12 select states you automatically get a $18,000 scholarship. http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/college ... rship.aspx So if the goal is not big law, and a small firm in Oklahoma, Tulsa doesn't have to be a terrible choice if you can get an additional scholarship tacked on to the Access to Legal Education Scholarship.

But what small firms? We aren't talking about oil & gas boutiques who contract out for Chevron or Shell, here. We're talking about a firm where you will be lucky to get above-minimum wage starting salaries to do mom & pop wills and trusts, if you can even find the few of them that happen to need an extra hand now and then, let alone be the one person out of 500 applicants who actually gets the job.

Tanicius wrote:

ElliotNessquire wrote:

Tanicius wrote:I would not go to Tulsa unless you have specific connections to a legal office in Oklahoma already set up. Without that, it's going to be very difficult to find someone to interview for, much less work for, no matter what its ranking is.

Why do you say that?

Oklahoma is mostly rural and is one of the most sparsely populated states in the country. There is so little demand for legal work that it's prohibitively risky to vie for a job in the state. Firms from Dallas or Houston aren't coming up to Tulsa to interview the city's law students. If you don't get a job in Tulsa itself, with literally one or two firm options that exist in the city, then you're pretty much screwed, unless: (a) your game plan was to join a family/friend's shop before you even went to school; or (b) start your own firm right after graduation.

This doesn't seem consistent with the research I've done. Tulsa is an oil & gas stronghold nationally and the metropolitan area is knocking on the door of a million people in population. Why would only 1 or 2 of the city's firms offer a good landing spot for employment of a TU grad?

I am beginning to wonder about the shillness of this thread.

bjsesq wrote:I am beginning to wonder about the shillness of this thread.

No no! I promise that isn't the case. I'm just an applicant trying to make a shrewd decision. Having reread through this thread, I can see why someone may have interpreted it that way, but that definitely wasn't my intent.

I work at a large firm in utah and 3 partners are Tulsa grads for what it's worth. They convinced me to go the cheap route for law school.

raininthedesert wrote:Full scholarship actually means tuition only.

Many schools, particularly state schools, are hampered by restrictions related to whether or not they can negate student fees. These fees are a tangible cost to the law school -- in other words actual money transfers between the law school and the larger university.

As a result most full scholarships don't cover the fees.

That's interesting - I hadn't heard anyone here mention getting a full scholarship and still getting hit for the fees. In either case, a full school doesn't imply a stipend on top of it, which I think was the important part of his question.

I have a weird feeling that the OP isn't even from Oklahoma.

BigZuck wrote:I have a weird feeling that the OP isn't even from Oklahoma.

I think OP is from Kansas, he mentioned Wichita in a different post and UMKC

Post removed.

CoffeeIsLife wrote:

BigZuck wrote:I have a weird feeling that the OP isn't even from Oklahoma.

I think OP is from Kansas, he mentioned Wichita in a different post and UMKC

Is Kansas a city in Oklahoma?

Or are those two different states?

Anyway, I don't think I would go there unless I was from Oklahoma and probably not unless I had ties to Tulsa specifically. I have to think the University of Oklahoma is the big dog in the state and I would imagine the legal community is pretty small.

BigZuck wrote:

CoffeeIsLife wrote:

BigZuck wrote:I have a weird feeling that the OP isn't even from Oklahoma.

I think OP is from Kansas, he mentioned Wichita in a different post and UMKC

Is Kansas a city in Oklahoma?

Or are those two different states?

Anyway, I don't think I would go there unless I was from Oklahoma and probably not unless I had ties to Tulsa specifically. I have to think the University of Oklahoma is the big dog in the state and I would imagine the legal community is pretty small.

I didn't say he was from Oklahoma, I was backing you up by saying I was pretty sure he was from Kansas like I posted.

CoffeeIsLife wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

CoffeeIsLife wrote:

BigZuck wrote:I have a weird feeling that the OP isn't even from Oklahoma.

I think OP is from Kansas, he mentioned Wichita in a different post and UMKC

Is Kansas a city in Oklahoma?

Or are those two different states?

Anyway, I don't think I would go there unless I was from Oklahoma and probably not unless I had ties to Tulsa specifically. I have to think the University of Oklahoma is the big dog in the state and I would imagine the legal community is pretty small.

I didn't say he was from Oklahoma, I was backing you up by saying I was pretty sure he was from Kansas like I posted.

Yeah, I know, just figured I would take a pot shot at the Midwest. Or wherever those states are located.

But...the OP might think "Kansas, Oklahoma, close enough, I'm basically a native!" but I doubt it'll work like that. Especially not if OK and KS have one of those weird border state rivalry cripple fights (and of that I honestly have no idea)

MistakenGenius wrote: 2.) They are FROM Oklahoma (Oklahoma is a very insular state and only really trust natives)

Just curious and not exactly looking to start something, but why do you believe this?

ElliotNessquire wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

ElliotNessquire wrote:

Tanicius wrote:I would not go to Tulsa unless you have specific connections to a legal office in Oklahoma already set up. Without that, it's going to be very difficult to find someone to interview for, much less work for, no matter what its ranking is.

Why do you say that?

Oklahoma is mostly rural and is one of the most sparsely populated states in the country. There is so little demand for legal work that it's prohibitively risky to vie for a job in the state. Firms from Dallas or Houston aren't coming up to Tulsa to interview the city's law students. If you don't get a job in Tulsa itself, with literally one or two firm options that exist in the city, then you're pretty much screwed, unless: (a) your game plan was to join a family/friend's shop before you even went to school; or (b) start your own firm right after graduation.

This doesn't seem consistent with the research I've done. Tulsa is an oil & gas stronghold nationally and the metropolitan area is knocking on the door of a million people in population. Why would only 1 or 2 of the city's firms offer a good landing spot for employment of a TU grad?[/quote


All of their oil/gas work is done by Dallas and Houston Biglaw.