ASU vs. Seton Hall Forum

[emitremmus]

I am struggling to choose between these two which seem to be the best fit for me. I am moving with my tax accountant fiancé (lower living expense). Was interested in sports and entertainment (waitlisted at USC and UCLA) now perhaps criminal but will wait to pursue a field with the highest demand. Getting into BigLaw is not my primary concern.

ASU: $10k/1st year (sent email to negotiate as well as find out whether it is renewable 2nd and 3rd). No Stips.
- Weak ties
- Cheap living expense
- Hot

Seton Hall: $40k/year (Must keep a 2.8 GPA).
- Strong ties - Family (Intern opportunity at DA office my first year)
- Expensive living
- Cold
- NY Giants fan

Ultimately, COA adds up to be about the same. Both have good employment outcomes, albeit regional. Any opinions?

[francesfarmer]

Get Seton Hall to drop the stips and go there. Makes much more sense than ASU, especially at that price.

[emitremmus]

Get Seton Hall to drop the stips and go there. Makes much more sense than ASU, especially at that price.

Thanks for your input!

Are these stips overly absurd to maintain? Reason being, I have already put a deposit down at Seton Hall due to deadline conflictions... Do you believe there is room for negotiation regarding stips after a first deposit has been made?

[donewithannarbor]

Your COA is 40/year at SHU or your scholarship is 40/year? Lemme get this straight. And what is your lsat/gpa if you don't mind?

Both solid regionals. I mean, it very much comes down to where you want to start off in practice. I am partial to the NY market. Are you interested in any of the markets ASU is strong in (I am guessing it can get you into LA as well as AZ?)?

[rwhyAn]

As a Jersey boy who did my undergrad at ASU, I loved everything about the valley of the sun, and I would recommend ASU if all things were equal, but they're not. I think being a Giants fan is the tie-breaker for SHU. Let's hope they don't start off 0-6 again this year.

In all seriousness, though, I would think SHU is your best bet. With a $40k/yr scholarship, you'd be looking at roughly $5-8k for tuition each year. I haven't checked their tuition in a while so my numbers may be a little off. Last time I checked ASU was still $40k/yr for out-of-state, and it would cost you around $50k for just one year if you include COL. Also, ASU was talking about privatizing the law school and paying for it and the new law building by tuition increases, so that's something that you would want to consider. Getting into $150-200k to attend ASU would be a huge mistake in my book. Given your situation and ties to NJ, I think SHU makes the most sense.

[emitremmus]

Your COA is 40/year at SHU or your scholarship is 40/year? Lemme get this straight. And what is your lsat/gpa if you don't mind?

Both solid regionals. I mean, it very much comes down to where you want to start off in practice. I am partial to the NY market. Are you interested in any of the markets ASU is strong in (I am guessing it can get you into LA as well as AZ?)?

Sorry my Scholly is $40k/year my COA for both would be roughly between a window of 95k and 105k (that's because I want to take extra loans to buy some things. Lets just say I owe my fiancé).

I have a 158/3.9.

I would honestly not mind practicing in either city for a while. Being from CA (San Diego) I would like to be somewhere nice which is why living in NJ would cost more for me (a little harder to find the nicer areas).

My concern with SHU is competing with the New York Schools and perhaps capping my opportunities despite my strong ties out there whereas ASU has Phoenix in the palm of its hand. I also feel that further down the line, ASU will perhaps have more of a name brand marketability for employers... And I would absolutely be open to coming back to Cali - be it in a relatively cheaper city if need be.

With all that said, SHU may keep me more entertained with all that is nearby. And if I can get a decent job in Jersey I would be OK with it.

As for goals, its hard to tell. I have had to re-evaluate my interests because, although I am a musician and would love to work in sports and entertainment law, I also understand I would be putting myself in a low-demand market (not as viable without a JD from UCLA/USC either).

Also, after the ASDs I have been to, I couldn't help but find interest in other aspects of the law and different programs some of these schools offered. So I think I will be taking an open approach, though social injustices and criminal law seem to intrigue me most.

[donewithannarbor]

It seems like it comes down to a lifestyle choice- where do you want to be now, and where do you want to be post-grad, geographically and opportunity-wise? There is nothing stopping you from taking the NJ/NY bar after ASU, if you go there and decide not to want to stay there longer term. Arranging employment is the tougher part (bear in mind, you could use your connects to get a summer job in NJ/NY, too). But I relate to and appreciate your open mindedness about figuring out want you want to pursue, and it seems to me that you might look for some less conventional avenues into practice (i.e. non big law). So you have some flexibility, it really comes down to place-- and I see you are pretty on top of all the pros and cons.

I know a lot about Seton because I am in that market. It's a mixed bag. It's definitely overpriced and that's why almost every good applicant like yourself needs a large subsidy. I know little about ASU, but I observe its huge rankings jump over 5 years and the fact that its obviously been furnished great resources for being a public school.

Let us know what you decide.

[NYSprague]

This is a bad plan. You are wasting a high GPA. Neither of these schools are worth going into 6 figures of debt. You should not treat student loan money like it is free money just because the government will lend it to you.

Seton Hall is not a respected school in New York. And that stipulation is terrible. The stipulation is there because that way they can be sure some people will lose their scholarships.

Did you look at their Law school transparency employment data?

[BigZuck]

Retake/reapply.

This is much closer to a disaster waiting to happen than a sensible plan.

And can you please take out private loans to buy stuff for your fiancé rather than use tax payer money for that?

[03152016]

The COA is too high. Neither option is suicidal, but that's not saying much. Maybe if the total debt was in the 50-60k range Seton Hall would be defensible. Try negotiating with them, go in person if you can.

Of course, as others have already pointed out, the best option is retake. With a high enough LSAT you can probably land any school you want, plus full-rides from much better schools than ASU and Seton Hall.

[koalacity]

You are looking at $200K in debt at ASU with no ties to the Phoenix or Tucson markets and a 60% chance of getting a legal job (not even one that will allow you to pay off that debt-for that, you've got about a 10% chance). That is a suicidal choice.

eta: how on earth are you calculating between 95K and 105K for ASU? You're a non-resident with a $10K/year scholarship that may or may not be renewable beyond the first year. You're looking at MINIMUM 180K of debt, more like 200K. http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/asu/costs/2013/

[WahooLaw24]

Definitely retake. Since law school admissions is almost entirely numbers based, and you have a stellar GPA, all you need to do is learn the LSAT, which is very doable. A 10 point increase would get you money at lower T14 schools and would get you full rides (maybe with no stips or even some living expenses if you leveraged with the T14 offers) at SHU/Cardozo/etc.

[The Dark Shepard]

Retake. You have a freaking 3.9

[rickgrimes69]

Retake. You have a freaking 3.9

[bizzike]

Retake. You have a freaking 3.9

A 158-163 isn't that big of a jump but it literally could send you to LS for almost free.

[Clearly]

[SteelPenguin]

You're the best Clearly