U of A vs. Boyd vs. Loyola vs. USD (all $$$$) Forum

[onlyunholy]

Stats:
Las Vegas Native
Living in SoCal since last January
Right under a year of legal assistance experience at elite plaintiff-side firm in SoCal

Offers:
- Full tuition from U of A (residency does not matter re: tuition), "good standing" stipulation.
- Full tuition from Boyd, 3.0 stipulation (would attempt to negotiate)
- 120k from Loyola, plus 1L book stipend, guaranteed 1L summer employment, freeze on tuition (leaving me owing a little over 7k year), alumni mentor, top 75% GPA stipulation. COA would be extremely low as I would be living with my SO, who is an attorney in LA.
- 126k from USD, left owing a little more than 5k a year, "good standing" stipulation.

Desires:
- Federal Clerkship
- Law Review/Moot Court

Also willing to TRANSFER into a T14 come 2L. Looking at doing that no matter what my decision is for 1L with current offers. Waitlisted at UCLA and Irvine, which are both big options if they come through with any money.

I want to end up in SoCal or Vegas doing plaintiff-side work.

GO.

(Retake is not an option I am willing to entertain, you retake-loving TLSers ).

[SnakySalmon]

.3% of USD students get federal clerkships. If what you want to do requires a clerkship, you should realize it's not going to happen at these schools.

[timbs4339]

I think you know this, but it's highly unlikely you'll get your goals coming out of any of these schools (~5%). It's highly unlikely you'll get the grades to transfer (~5%).

I'd recommend remaining at your current job and retaking for atleast UCLA/USC with money. If not go to Loyola, since they have a slightly higher AIII+big firm score on LST and you can keep COL low- I assume you will have to finance COL in SD/LV/AZ.

[ManoftheHour]

Also, Loyola's schools stip isn't "good standing." It's top 75%. U of A's isn't "good standing" either. It's top 90%. Doesn't really matter I suppose. If I didn't meet those stips, I'd drop out.

[SnakySalmon]

Also, Loyola's schools stip isn't "good standing." It's top 75%. U of A's isn't "good standing" either. It's top 90%. Doesn't really matter I suppose. If I didn't meet those stips, I'd drop out.

I doubt you can be in bottom 10 at American and be in good standing. You have to be on probation at that point.

[ZGr88n]

Sit out, retake, and apply earlier next cycle (or the cycle after). You're welcome.

[onlyunholy]

I do not "need" a federal clerkship to get where I want to go -- I just want one to ensure I can be an appropriate candidate for SoCal plaintiff-side firms going to a school like Loyola/Boyd/U of A..

U of A is best ranked (by far), but I recognize that attending school in Arizona without any desire to work there is pretty silly, although they do have good LA/Vegas alumni networks.

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

[onlyunholy]

Also, Loyola's schools stip isn't "good standing." It's top 75%. U of A's isn't "good standing" either. It's top 90%. Doesn't really matter I suppose. If I didn't meet those stips, I'd drop out.

I didn't say Loyola was good standing, for what it's worth. And you are right, U of A's is top 90%.,

[timbs4339]

I do not "need" a federal clerkship to get where I want to go -- I just want one to ensure I can be an appropriate candidate for SoCal plaintiff-side firms going to a school like Loyola/Boyd/U of A..

U of A is best ranked (by far), but I recognize that attending school in Arizona without any desire to work there is pretty silly, although they do have good LA/Vegas alumni networks.

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you screw up during 1L year even a little bit, you're out. You might think that your scholly awards will mean you'll have an advantage over your classmates, and you might be right that you'll have a small advantage, but it's a much better move to see if you can max your LSAT score. But don't ask me, have an honest conversation with the hiring partner at your firm. Ask point blank- "if my resume came across your desk in three years with mediocre grades from Loyola or U of A, would you take a chance on me?"

[TheSpanishMain]

I think these are all good options at those prices for the appropriate goals, aka small law/local government in Arizona, SoCal, or Vegas. For a federal clerkship, none are good options.

[onlyunholy]

I do not "need" a federal clerkship to get where I want to go -- I just want one to ensure I can be an appropriate candidate for SoCal plaintiff-side firms going to a school like Loyola/Boyd/U of A..

U of A is best ranked (by far), but I recognize that attending school in Arizona without any desire to work there is pretty silly, although they do have good LA/Vegas alumni networks.

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you screw up during 1L year even a little bit, you're out. You might think that your scholly awards will mean you'll have an advantage over your classmates, and you might be right that you'll have a small advantage, but it's a much better move to see if you can max your LSAT score. But don't ask me, have an honest conversation with the hiring partner at your firm. Ask point blank- "if my resume came across your desk in three years with mediocre grades from Loyola or U of A, would you take a chance on me?"

I actually did just this. I no longer work for that firm, but I did ask him what he would think about a resume coming from U of A - he said he wouldn't think much, and without a clerkship he would think even less.. He has a Loyola associate, but that was pretty accidental (plus she's bilingual). He's looking for better tiered schools for sure, I was just trying to see how my current options could fit into that bigger picture..

I am on UCLA and Irvine's waitlist. I still have hope there..

[timbs4339]

I do not "need" a federal clerkship to get where I want to go -- I just want one to ensure I can be an appropriate candidate for SoCal plaintiff-side firms going to a school like Loyola/Boyd/U of A..

U of A is best ranked (by far), but I recognize that attending school in Arizona without any desire to work there is pretty silly, although they do have good LA/Vegas alumni networks.

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you screw up during 1L year even a little bit, you're out. You might think that your scholly awards will mean you'll have an advantage over your classmates, and you might be right that you'll have a small advantage, but it's a much better move to see if you can max your LSAT score. But don't ask me, have an honest conversation with the hiring partner at your firm. Ask point blank- "if my resume came across your desk in three years with mediocre grades from Loyola or U of A, would you take a chance on me?"

I actually did just this. I no longer work for that firm, but I did ask him what he would think about a resume coming from U of A - he said he wouldn't think much, and without a clerkship he would think even less.. He has a Loyola associate, but that was pretty accidental (plus she's bilingual). He's looking for better tiered schools for sure, I was just trying to see how my current options could fit into that bigger picture..

I am on UCLA and Irvine's waitlist. I still have hope there..

That's what I understand about the elite P-side firms (Lieff Cabraser, Robbins Geller, Seeger Weiss off the top of my head). They are even pickier than the average biglaw firm and a lot of them just won't hire without a few years of biglaw experience or a federal appellate clerkship.

What were your numbers?

[onlyunholy]

That's what I understand about the elite P-side firms (Lieff Cabraser, Robbins Geller, Seeger Weiss off the top of my head). They are even pickier than the average biglaw firm and a lot of them just won't hire without a few years of biglaw experience or a federal appellate clerkship.

What were your numbers?[/quote]

Exactly. He did say elite P-side firms are indeed more picky than biglaw.

[onlyunholy]

BTW - Thank you for the quick replies, everyone! Please keep them coming! .

[dsamuels]

I think these are all good options at those prices for the appropriate goals, aka small law/local government in Arizona, SoCal, or Vegas. For a federal clerkship, none are good options.

+1

I agree with this. Also as the other posters already mentioned it is never a good idea to expect to obtain good enough grades to transfer, so if you do not retake and pick one of these schools make sure that you are willing to spend the next three years there and possibly work in that state.

[rickgrimes69]

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

That's a bad and exceedingly improbable goal. What are you going to do when if you aren't able to transfer?

[onlyunholy]

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

That's a bad and exceedingly improbable goal. What are you going to do when if you aren't able to transfer?

I would have to be comfortable with 3 years at the school. I do understand that. In that case - I make the best of what I have at whatever school I choose.. Try to get clerkships even if minimal chance.. Law review.. Moot court..

[CoffeeIsLife]

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

That's a bad and exceedingly improbable goal. What are you going to do when if you aren't able to transfer?

I would have to be comfortable with 3 years at the school. I do understand that. In that case - I make the best of what I have at whatever school I choose.. Try to get clerkships even if minimal chance.. Law review.. Moot court..

Getting Law Review would put you in the % that would have a shot at transferring. What if that was not an option either?

[timbs4339]

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

That's a bad and exceedingly improbable goal. What are you going to do when if you aren't able to transfer?

I would have to be comfortable with 3 years at the school. I do understand that. In that case - I make the best of what I have at whatever school I choose.. Try to get clerkships even if minimal chance.. Law review.. Moot court..

Getting Law Review would put you in the % that would have a shot at transferring. What if that was not an option either?

And moot court is not really going to help you get a federal clerkship which is very grade-focused.

How many retakes do you have left? Even a few more points would really help.

[WokeUpInACar]

Do you really think that getting top 10% grades at a place like Loyola would be easier than scoring a few points higher on the LSAT? Think about the potential risk of waiting a year and retaking the LSAT vs. the potential risk of attending a shitty law school where it will be much more difficult to accomplish your goals.

[BigZuck]

Getting a 170 or so will be significantly easier than getting the grades from these schools to transfer into a place like Cal. It will almost certainly be significantly cheaper as well.

This plan is really, really not good. A federal clerkship is like virtually impossible to get from any of these schools. I totally understand why you feel like you're smart but if you continue with this plan it will almost certainly be one of the dumbest things you ever decide to do.

If you're cool with the job outlook for a median bro at any of these schools then knock yourself out. At least you have big scholarships.

[HRomanus]

If you're cool with the job outlook for a median bro at any of these schools then knock yourself out. At least you have big scholarships.

Even as a Greek, I feel like the job outlook for a median *bro* is probably lower than the job outlook for the median LS student.

[BigZuck]

If you're cool with the job outlook for a median bro at any of these schools then knock yourself out. At least you have big scholarships.

Even as a Greek, I feel like the job outlook for a median *bro* is probably lower than the job outlook for the median LS student.

My boss at my summer job sent me this today: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/cult ... annot.html

I would be interested in the median outcome (in terms of salary) of a law grad 9 months out vs a normal college grad 9 months out.

[HRomanus]

If you're cool with the job outlook for a median bro at any of these schools then knock yourself out. At least you have big scholarships.

Even as a Greek, I feel like the job outlook for a median *bro* is probably lower than the job outlook for the median LS student.

My boss at my summer job sent me this today: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/cult ... annot.html

I would be interested in the median outcome (in terms of salary) of a law grad 9 months out vs a normal college grad 9 months out.

LOL one of my clients told me this today. I couldn't be an ass and tell him the truth, especially when he told me his sister went to Pepperdine and is working as a line cook at a hotel and hates it.

[onlyunholy]

Also, I recognize that I may not be able to transfer, but my point was that I would be going into these schools TRYING to transfer to Boalt/UCLA/USC. With that in mind, I realize how hard it would be, but it would be my goal.

That's a bad and exceedingly improbable goal. What are you going to do when if you aren't able to transfer?

I would have to be comfortable with 3 years at the school. I do understand that. In that case - I make the best of what I have at whatever school I choose.. Try to get clerkships even if minimal chance.. Law review.. Moot court..

Getting Law Review would put you in the % that would have a shot at transferring. What if that was not an option either?

How would I get into Law Review at the original school if I intend on transferring? I would apply to the write on at my original school AND my transfer and inform the possible transferring school that I was accepted..? Or are you asking about the transfer school, getting on that law review? I would write on for that, and apply only to transfer schools where that would be an option..