UGA, Tulane, or UC Davis? Forum

[busterbluthe]

I would like the TLS community's opinion on where I should be attending law school this fall. My options are UGA, at approximately $11,000/yr in tuition (in state), Tulane, at approximately $13,500/yr in tuition, or UC Davis, at approximately $27,000/yr in tuition. Cost of living at all 3 locations is very similar. I have also been waitlisted at Emory, which I will attend if I get in with a good scholarship. My area of interest is unknown and so is my ultimate work location, but there is a decent chance I will end up in GA or FL. I have saved up a significant amount of money working f/t for the past few years, and I also can get some money from my parents. These funds total about $50,000 or so. Please do NOT advise me to retake. I will definitely be going to school this year, so that is completely unhelpful.

Thanks all!

[Otunga]

UGA's the only reasonable choice here. It's the most affordable, you're good with working in GA, and you live there already. However, 33k + COL is no joke for your COA. But if you subtract the 50k you're contributing to the debt with, you're looking at, what, 50k debt? You should retake though.

[phillywc]

UGA's the only reasonable choice here. It's the most affordable, you're good with working in GA, and you live there already. However, 33k + COL is no joke for your COA. But if you subtract the 50k you're contributing to the debt with, you're looking at, what, 50k debt? You should retake though.

This is mostly credited. Could you live at home? That would make UGA a no brainer.

[busterbluthe]

Can't live at home - UGA is an hour and a half away. I also don't think my live-in bf would like that

[ERod3191]

Go to UGA! It's cheap, if you want to practice in GA then it's the only option besides Emory for you. I wouldn't go to Tulane if you want to practice in Georgia. If you want to end up in FL you should consider tossing an application to FSU, they extended their deadline and you could probably get in. Congrats on your acceptances!

[BigZuck]

How much of that 50K will you be paying out of your own pocket and how much of it is from your parents?

How much debt will you be in at graduation if you go to UGA?

[busterbluthe]

More than half is mine. With UGA estimated COA, my debt at graduation would be 33K. I think my parents may be able to offer me an interest free loan for part of this.

[BigZuck]

So if what you'll be paying (mix of loans and savings) to attend UGA is about 60k then that's fine. Enjoy.

Tulane and Davis don't make sense for cost/location reasons.

Of course all this is predicated on you wanting small firm/local government work. If you have more lofty career goals then retake.

[Otunga]

More than half is mine. With UGA estimated COA, my debt at graduation would be 33K. I think my parents may be able to offer me an interest free loan for part of this.

Then yes, UGA is a solid choice. But expect to get small law.

[PropaneAccessories]

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[BigZuck]

More than half is mine. With UGA estimated COA, my debt at graduation would be 33K. I think my parents may be able to offer me an interest free loan for part of this.

Then yes, UGA is a solid choice. But expect to get small law.

I work in the Atlanta legal market. I will not say in what capacity, only that I have enough anecdotal evidence to give an honest opinion that probably has more of a spine to it than what most people will give OP.

Does UGA place over 50%+ into BigLaw? No. However, having known a bunch of UGA law grads in my time, there's more to this than what is on the surface. Many folks do not pursue BigLaw from UGA, especially many in-state students, if it is not their desire. Tuition is so cheap that they are not in a "Big Law or Bust" position.

Then you have folks whose interests are geared towards state politics (The only other law school in Georgia that is even remotely good for this is Mercer and that's because it is Mecca for folks in middle and south Georgia....and a place that elicits the response of "Why would you want to spend three years in Macon?" from everyone else). There are also those who have national political aspirations and, from personal experience, I can tell you that nearly every major U.S. House and U.S. Senate campaign in Georgia currently has a recent UGA Law Grad serving in a senior position.

So, when you break it down, you're looking at a smaller portion of the overall class that wants BigLaw than you would see at T-14 schools. Does it mean that your chances at BigLaw are wholly better from a T-14 than from UGA if you're targeting Atlanta? Not necessarily.

Atlanta and UGA Law are bedfellows. They want to, and do, support each other in anyway they can. Since Atlanta is the crossroads for nearly every reputable southern law school, UGA Law alums are very keen to ensure that the presence remains strong (yadda yadda yadda management positions of Atlanta law should be equally distributed among UGA, UVA and Vandy graduates yadda yadda yadda). I will say that, from what I have seen, the UGA alums do a good job of this. Also, as of late, Georgia State is punching above its weight class for SA positions, but that is neither here nor there.

Ultimately, if you don't have prior work experience or connections to the BigLaw firms in Atlanta, you'll probably have no wiggle room with the grade floors. Top 25% from Emory and UGA gets your foot in the door. Top 35-40% gets your foot in the door from Vandy. Top 50% more than likely gets your foot in the door from UVA, depending on the firm.

You're in the awesome position where you'll take on very little debt from UGA. Want BigLaw? Awesome. Bust your ass and go get it. However, if you strike-out, not necessarily a big deal. There are honestly plenty of jobs to be had in Atlanta at smaller firms and, no, the vast majority aren't shit law.

UGA is your school, hands-down, no question.

Also, if a Yankee who has never lived in Atlanta attempts to pass their opinion of UGA and the Atlanta legal community as worthwhile, chuckle, say "Bless your heart" and just move along. The only folks who can speak to this market are those who actually work here. The only folks that can speak to UGA are those who have lived here for a significant amount of time (preferably raised here) and understand how dominant UGA is in this state in business, law, and politics.

Lol

No

Come on bro, we are trying to help people make a major life decision here, not blow smoke up their butts

[PropaneAccessories]

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[sublime]

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[busterbluthe]

Thanks, everyone, for your help! By the way, I am interested in big law, but I'm certainly not dead set on it. My take on the matter is that I have been out of school working for several years in the legal field, and I know exactly why I am going to law school at this stage. I am willing to work hard, and I was successful at my "T14" undergrad University, so I think achieving top 25% or even top 10% is totally doable. If not, like I said, I am fine with not getting into big law. Also, since no one seems to be discussing my options other than UGA, I just wanted to throw out there that the total expected debt for Tulane would be about $56,000. I actually think this figure should be more comparable to the UGA estimated debt, since Tulane budgets much more than UGA does for for COL, and I have found the COL in both New Orleans and Athens to be equal.

On another note, I would encourage posters who keep posting "retake" to consider the bigger picture for some applicants. I am in my late 20's, and it is not feasible for me to waste any more time making less than half of my potential in the legal field. I also don't think enough is said on these boards for being a big fish in a slightly smaller pond so to say. It's not all smooth sailing once you get into a good school. Hard work and determination go a long way....

[busterbluthe]

One more point - I visited both Tulane and UGA, and I liked the Tulane campus and overall vibe there much better. Also, New Orleans is definitely a preferable place for me to live than Athens is. Do people still have a negative perception of Tulane? Particularly with respect to Tulane Law graduates' employment potential outside of Louisiana?

[bizzike]

FWIW figure out what region you'd enjoy. None of those JDs have any real portability. CoL and employment prospects aside. New Orleans, the Bay Area, and ATL could not be more different from each other.

[AthensGA]

Does UGA place over 50%+ into BigLaw? No. However, having known a bunch of UGA law grads in my time, there's more to this than what is on the surface. Many folks do not pursue BigLaw from UGA, especially many in-state students, if it is not their desire. Tuition is so cheap that they are not in a "Big Law or Bust" position.

.....

Ultimately, if you don't have prior work experience or connections to the BigLaw firms in Atlanta, you'll probably have no wiggle room with the grade floors. Top 25% from Emory and UGA gets your foot in the door. Top 35-40% gets your foot in the door from Vandy. Top 50% more than likely gets your foot in the door from UVA, depending on the firm.

You're in the awesome position where you'll take on very little debt from UGA. Want BigLaw? Awesome. Bust your ass and go get it. However, if you strike-out, not necessarily a big deal. There are honestly plenty of jobs to be had in Atlanta at smaller firms and, no, the vast majority aren't shift law

Lol all around.

Graduated from UGA Law two days ago. Less than 10%, probably closer to 5%, of my class has biglaw jobs, despite way more than that wanting them. A lot of people want government or PI, sure, but a substantial portion still wanted firm jobs, big or small, and were unsuccessful.

I would estimate that close to 40-50% of my class is currently jobless altogether and hoping to piece something together between now and taking the bar. He shouldn't expect to get biglaw if he goes to UGA, and if he wants any firm job at all he better start networking now and hope he lands top 10-15% of the class. He could certainly get a (non biglaw) firm job with a lower rank, and know of people around the median and below who do have firm jobs. But they landed them with persistent networking, strong extracurriculars, and a decent amount of luck.

Just go take a look at the letter on Above the Law a month or two ago written by my classmate, whose job it is to solicit student donations to the school, telling us specifically not to donate until Career Services gets better. There have been some changes since then, but it's too early to tell if they will have an impact.

And I'm someone who overall enjoyed the experience there.

[JDeezy]

Thanks, everyone, for your help! By the way, I am interested in big law, but I'm certainly not dead set on it. My take on the matter is that I have been out of school working for several years in the legal field, and I know exactly why I am going to law school at this stage. I am willing to work hard, and I was successful at my "T14" undergrad University, so I think achieving top 25% or even top 10% is totally doable. If not, like I said, I am fine with not getting into big law. Also, since no one seems to be discussing my options other than UGA, I just wanted to throw out there that the total expected debt for Tulane would be about $56,000. I actually think this figure should be more comparable to the UGA estimated debt, since Tulane budgets much more than UGA does for for COL, and I have found the COL in both New Orleans and Athens to be equal.

On another note, I would encourage posters who keep posting "retake" to consider the bigger picture for some applicants. I am in my late 20's, and it is not feasible for me to waste any more time making less than half of my potential in the legal field. I also don't think enough is said on these boards for being a big fish in a slightly smaller pond so to say. It's not all smooth sailing once you get into a good school. Hard work and determination go a long way....

Your GPA and LSAT score guarantee you will be surrounded by students of pretty much the exact pedigree. So you will be a very average sized fish. In a pond that is of appropriate size.

Not retaking may work out OK for you. To anyone reading this in the future with a similar position as OP (especially if taking on more debt): you are advised to retake. Could be looking at millions in lifetime earnings difference. OP may be making "half of my potential earnings" for the rest of her life.

[busterbluthe]

Thanks AthensGA. That is quite disheartening.

JDeezy - I want to try to stay on topic, but to quickly defend myself here, I have to say that your post contradicts itself. If the average reader in my position should retake the LSAT to improve their score and get into a better school, then you are saying that the LSAT is a somewhat, if not highly mobile number (which I agree with). Therefore, unless you have taken the LSAT several times, you are not necessarily at your peak score. Any given school will have some individuals who are at their peak LSAT score and some who are at the lower end of their range. UGA, for example, will have some students who postponed school for a year or more in order to increase their score. Therefore, if you think that I can increase my LSAT score, you are saying that you think I can do better than UGA. AKA big fish in small pond.

Anyone else have any opinions of Tulane?

[PropaneAccessories]

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[JDeezy]

Thanks AthensGA. That is quite disheartening.

JDeezy - I want to try to stay on topic, but to quickly defend myself here, I have to say that your post contradicts itself. If the average reader in my position should retake the LSAT to improve their score and get into a better school, then you are saying that the LSAT is a somewhat, if not highly mobile number (which I agree with). Therefore, unless you have taken the LSAT several times, you are not necessarily at your peak score. Any given school will have some individuals who are at their peak LSAT score and some who are at the lower end of their range. UGA, for example, will have some students who postponed school for a year or more in order to increase their score. Therefore, if you think that I can increase my LSAT score, you are saying that you think I can do better than UGA. AKA big fish in small pond.

Anyone else have any opinions of Tulane?

I'll grant that maybe if you are far below your peak LSAT score, you might be slightly more likely to do well than the average student at your school. But it also means that you are going to a school that you could avoid by retaking. The benefit from attaining your peak score and thus going to a better school far outweighs any small possible benefit you could find from banking on you outperforming others. Especially considering that most say law school grades can be somewhat arbitrary.

[busterbluthe]

Thanks PropaneAccessories - I really appreciate you providing your perspective as a current employee in the Atlanta legal market.

[cron1834]

Thanks, everyone, for your help! By the way, I am interested in big law, but I'm certainly not dead set on it. My take on the matter is that I have been out of school working for several years in the legal field, and I know exactly why I am going to law school at this stage. I am willing to work hard, and I was successful at my "T14" undergrad University, so I think achieving top 25% or even top 10% is totally doable. If not, like I said, I am fine with not getting into big law. Also, since no one seems to be discussing my options other than UGA, I just wanted to throw out there that the total expected debt for Tulane would be about $56,000. I actually think this figure should be more comparable to the UGA estimated debt, since Tulane budgets much more than UGA does for for COL, and I have found the COL in both New Orleans and Athens to be equal.

On another note, I would encourage posters who keep posting "retake" to consider the bigger picture for some applicants. I am in my late 20's, and it is not feasible for me to waste any more time making less than half of my potential in the legal field. I also don't think enough is said on these boards for being a big fish in a slightly smaller pond so to say. It's not all smooth sailing once you get into a good school. Hard work and determination go a long way....

I'm older than you and I'm retaking. I'm turning down some T14 options to do so. If you graduate in the 50% of the classes at these middling schools that are unemployed or underemployed, it's not going to make a dime's worth of difference if you graduated at age 31 or 32.

Go to a school where you have an 80+ percent chance of doing what you want. I don't think anything less is worth years of your life, even if it's (relatively) cheap.