"Well I spent like the first two years of college blacked out, and then there was that six-month off and on again relationship that screwed with my LSAT prep, and I didn't have a fancy test prep course like some other entitled brats (mine was only 1.5K) and I'm just not a good testtaker (my mom says so) and it's like half the people in law school are just stuck up rich kids anyway who aren't going to try, and the other half are just total dorks who don't get that being a lawyer doesn't mean you have you nose in a book all the time, and my dad's friend who knows a lawyer told me I'm good at arguing one time, and I got a B in that prelaw 101 class I took junior year, so there."TheSpanishMain wrote:+1 for this solid post. It always makes me wonder when people go "I have a 2.8 GPA and a 151 LSAT, but I'm confident I can be in the top 5% of my class."SFrost wrote:Just curious, but how do you rationalize your ability to 'work hard'?iloveturtles wrote:The way I view it, if you're going to wait for all the stars to align before you do anything then you're going to have a bad time. I rather take my chances, knowing I'm going to work hard and if I'm not good enough then I don't mind dropping out after my 1L with about a year's worth of living expenses as debt.
You didn't work hard as an undergraduate, as evidenced by a horrible GPA.
You didn't work hard for the LSAT, as evidenced by a terrible LSAT.
When have you truly worked hard in your life? This isn't a flame. I'm asking if you truly believe, based on your track record, you will suddenly change in law school and be in the top 10%. You have no record of academic success, yet you want to pursue a career which requires you to succeed academically for 3 years.
What the hell could that confidence possibly be based on?
Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s Forum
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
Last edited by timbs4339 on Fri May 16, 2014 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
- rickgrimes69
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
Nofanlinxun wrote:No argument stands up when taken to ridiculous extremes. A better comparison would be a high school graduate choosing between two "dead end" jobs instead of going to college. Neither of the jobs is necessarily the right decision, but one might be a little better than the other and he deserves to be able to get the information he needs to figure that out.rickgrimes69 wrote:I'm considering shooting myself in the face with a shotgunfanlinxun wrote: The reason I often disagree with the "retake" mantra is because many posters are asking for specific advice (like making a decision between two schools) and instead get berated for not being willing to retake. Frankly the "choosing a law school" threads lose much of their value when they turn from offering information about OPs' specific situations to just telling them to retake. If someone is absolutely set on choosing between two options that most would agree are both bad I don't see why posters can't offer insight to help them make the better of two bad decisions.
However I also have a power drill that would be perfect for giving myself a lobotomy
Which is better guys please help, and don't say "neither" I've made up my mind
A better analogy would be deciding between two bottom barrel
Getting a dead-end job doesn't preclude one from pursuing other lines of work like a useless JD does. Getting a dead-end job doesn't burden one under hundreds of thousands of dollars of non-dischargeable debt.
When the choice is between terrible school A and terrible school B, the correct answer is always 'retake or don't go' not 'terrible school A because it's marginally less terrible.' Just because OP presents a false dichotomy doesn't mean we have to accept it.
- rickgrimes69
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
First of all that analogy was largely a joke, thought that was obvious but okHRomanus wrote:I largely agree with fanlinxun. Your analogy is far too simplistic and obvious to be useful. Pretty much every school (other than TTTT) has at least some chance at a favorable outcome, even if it isn't BigLaw. "Law," "lawyers," and "law school" have a strong sense of prestige among college students and the general citizenry. Aside from that, I would guess that your average 0L has a confident personality and is used to achieving goals; why shouldn't they get a favorable outcome?rickgrimes69 wrote:I'm considering shooting myself in the face with a shotgun
However I also have a power drill that would be perfect for giving myself a lobotomy
Which is better guys please help, and don't say "neither" I've made up my mind
Second, who gives a fuck about prestige if you're $200k in the hole and unemployed
Third, nobody said that it was impossible to be successful from a TTTT, just like it's not impossible to survive shooting yourself in the face. That doesn't mean doing either is a good idea, especially when you have the option to not
- northwood
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
If you are looking at a TTT TTTT in New York, outside of the City you will need to show oe tensile ties to the region to be considered a non flight risk. For a lot of places outside the City that will require oe other growing up there and going to laws hook thereof. Marrying someone from the area.. As a native Californian you do not meet those requirements and will have a much more difficult time convincing employers that you are not a flight risk. As for
TT TTT TTTT schools in NYC you will need to be at the very top of your class to have a chance. So for you, I would stay away from NY schools.
As for Cali schools, if you do go, you ought todrop out ASAP if you lose your scholarship.
But your best bet is not to go. DO NOT GO.
Wait a few years and STUDY FOR THE LSAT AND REATTEMPT AND APPLY EARLY IN THE CYCLE
TT TTT TTTT schools in NYC you will need to be at the very top of your class to have a chance. So for you, I would stay away from NY schools.
As for Cali schools, if you do go, you ought todrop out ASAP if you lose your scholarship.
But your best bet is not to go. DO NOT GO.
Wait a few years and STUDY FOR THE LSAT AND REATTEMPT AND APPLY EARLY IN THE CYCLE
- PepperJack
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
Just go where you'll have fun. Life is going to suck in 3 years from any of these options so just plan on having a good time. There's no right choice but not go. If someone was deadset on suicide and wouldn't not off themselves I'd just tell them to do what makes them happy. That's the only advice to give.
On the you see an opportunity here and because you have a 5% chance at what you want, jumping in head first as quickly as possible risking your whole life is a glass is half full approach. This whole bumper sticker emotional hallmark card logic is exactly the kind of crap that doesn't fly in law. People are going to expect you to give tangible advice. If they want flowery crap, they will watch the Oprah Winfrey show or Ricki Lake. While practice requires social skills, law school is very much about logic, reading and writing. That's it. What you mean is you look at the glass as 5% full and others see it as 95% empty.
On the you see an opportunity here and because you have a 5% chance at what you want, jumping in head first as quickly as possible risking your whole life is a glass is half full approach. This whole bumper sticker emotional hallmark card logic is exactly the kind of crap that doesn't fly in law. People are going to expect you to give tangible advice. If they want flowery crap, they will watch the Oprah Winfrey show or Ricki Lake. While practice requires social skills, law school is very much about logic, reading and writing. That's it. What you mean is you look at the glass as 5% full and others see it as 95% empty.
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- PepperJack
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
You should compare it to a casino. That's the actual analogy. I also don't think enough emphasis is placed on not dischargeable in bankruptcy so it's not just like opening a business when 90% of restaurants don't make a profit. You have no do over - just screwed. More emphasis should also be placed on the individual. These forums mistakenly say it's just numbers to make it a successful outcome. There are subjective measures too. For instance, if say there was never a Civil Rights Act and blacks and women were shut out of big law, even if a minority or female had a 4.0 and 180 you would say they are reckless for going to law school, and law schools are morally bankrupt for accepting them without warning. Today, things like attractiveness and fitting a prototype as well as how one presents themselves have a very significant value. I think these threads should also include a resume and video presentation as part of the analysis on if something is a prudent choice for a particular student.rickgrimes69 wrote:First of all that analogy was largely a joke, thought that was obvious but okHRomanus wrote:I largely agree with fanlinxun. Your analogy is far too simplistic and obvious to be useful. Pretty much every school (other than TTTT) has at least some chance at a favorable outcome, even if it isn't BigLaw. "Law," "lawyers," and "law school" have a strong sense of prestige among college students and the general citizenry. Aside from that, I would guess that your average 0L has a confident personality and is used to achieving goals; why shouldn't they get a favorable outcome?rickgrimes69 wrote:I'm considering shooting myself in the face with a shotgun
However I also have a power drill that would be perfect for giving myself a lobotomy
Which is better guys please help, and don't say "neither" I've made up my mind
Second, who gives a fuck about prestige if you're $200k in the hole and unemployed
Third, nobody said that it was impossible to be successful from a TTTT, just like it's not impossible to survive shooting yourself in the face. That doesn't mean doing either is a good idea, especially when you have the option to notshoot yourself in the faceattend a TTTT
- Elston Gunn
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
PepperJack wrote:You should compare it to a casino. That's the actual analogy. I also don't think enough emphasis is placed on not dischargeable in bankruptcy so it's not just like opening a business when 90% of restaurants don't make a profit. You have no do over - just screwed. More emphasis should also be placed on the individual. These forums mistakenly say it's just numbers to make it a successful outcome. There are subjective measures too. For instance, if say there was never a Civil Rights Act and blacks and women were shut out of big law, even if a minority or female had a 4.0 and 180 you would say they are reckless for going to law school, and law schools are morally bankrupt for accepting them without warning. Today, things like attractiveness and fitting a prototype as well as how one presents themselves have a very significant value. I think these threads should also include a resume and video presentation as part of the analysis on if something is a prudent choice for a particular student.rickgrimes69 wrote:First of all that analogy was largely a joke, thought that was obvious but okHRomanus wrote:I largely agree with fanlinxun. Your analogy is far too simplistic and obvious to be useful. Pretty much every school (other than TTTT) has at least some chance at a favorable outcome, even if it isn't BigLaw. "Law," "lawyers," and "law school" have a strong sense of prestige among college students and the general citizenry. Aside from that, I would guess that your average 0L has a confident personality and is used to achieving goals; why shouldn't they get a favorable outcome?rickgrimes69 wrote:I'm considering shooting myself in the face with a shotgun
However I also have a power drill that would be perfect for giving myself a lobotomy
Which is better guys please help, and don't say "neither" I've made up my mind
Second, who gives a fuck about prestige if you're $200k in the hole and unemployed
Third, nobody said that it was impossible to be successful from a TTTT, just like it's not impossible to survive shooting yourself in the face. That doesn't mean doing either is a good idea, especially when you have the option to notshoot yourself in the faceattend a TTTT
- Power_of_Facing
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Re: Dilemma between undesirable T2 and neutral T3s
iloveturtles wrote:I actually scored ~163 in practice tests but like I said, I don't have any tries left and I want to go law school now rather than in a couple years. People on here keep telling me I shouldn't do it, or that I can't...and honestly all I can say is not with that attitude!
Yeah okay, maybe T2/3/4s have a harder time competing for jobs with T1s but the fact remains they still land jobs and that's all I really need to hear. The way I view it, if you're going to wait for all the stars to align before you do anything then you're going to have a bad time. I rather take my chances, knowing I'm going to work hard and if I'm not good enough then I don't mind dropping out after my 1L with about a year's worth of living expenses as debt.