Washington and Lee ($) vs. Penn State for free Forum

[1Lmatic]

.

[eriedoctrine]

W&L.
W&L's large firm + clerkship score = ~20% while PSU = ~6%

[bugsy33]

These are your only two choices? I feel like you should have more than these two options given your LSAT and GPA...but this one is so obvious: Penn State. Enjoy three more years at a kick ass university in a gorgeous law building. Plus their class size this year is going to be epically small.

[jchiles]

(Current PSU Student) Penn state is probably the better of these two choices, especially if you really are ok with staying in PA (and preferably the non-Philly parts of the state). But don't go to PSU expecting to wind up in big- or even mid-law type employment, especially if you aren't coming in with contacts. I think career services was probably right when they told you this year will be better than last just based on conversations I've had with 3Ls but obviously there is no denying how bad last year's employment data was.

[1Lmatic]

.

[Power_of_Facing]

It sucks, but you've got to buckle down and retake.

While it's great that you have the opportunity to attend law school for free, you would be doing yourself a disservice by not giving the LSAT one more shot. The job prospects of attending an elite school with $$ are worth far more than your current full ride offer.

You probably worked really hard to attain your enviable GPA -- put the same effort into your LSAT score and it will pay off for you.

And I say this as a three-time test-taker who will be attending a T14 for free in the fall. (PM for deets.) But so, yeah, please retake. Please retake. PLEASE, seriously, RETAKE.

[bugsy33]

These are your only two choices? I feel like you should have more than these two options given your LSAT and GPA...but this one is so obvious: Penn State. Enjoy three more years at a kick ass university in a gorgeous law building. Plus their class size this year is going to be epically small.

.

Yes, though I'm riding out William and Mary and UVA's wait lists too (not feeling good about UVA, but I think I have a chance at W&M). I had a pretty serious, very isolated character and fitness issue, so there's a chance they just wanted to see if I would stay out of trouble til graduation.

OP you're still in college? Dude you should take some time off and work. Especially if you have C&F issues, then reapply. You should have much better options than these two even if you don't retake. Take some time off to work and party with your friends.

[1Lmatic]

It sucks, but you've got to buckle down and retake.

While it's great that you have the opportunity to attend law school for free, you would be doing yourself a disservice by not giving the LSAT one more shot. The job prospects of attending an elite school with $$ are worth far more than your current full ride offer.

You probably worked really hard to attain your enviable GPA -- put the same effort into your LSAT score and it will pay off for you.

And I say this as a three-time test-taker who will be attending a T14 for free in the fall. (PM for deets.) But so, yeah, please retake. Please retake. PLEASE, seriously, RETAKE.

I'd be more inclined to agree if I was risking taking on an untenable debt load by not retaking. And I also scored four points higher on my retake than on any practice test I took, which makes me really doubt I'll be able to jump a 170. I really do get what you're saying--a T14 would offer a lot more opportunities. But I think it's much more likely I score in the same range and then have to worry about not getting another full tuition offer.

[1Lmatic]

OP you're still in college? Dude you should take some time off and work. Especially if you have C&F issues, then reapply. You should have much better options than these two even if you don't retake. Take some time off to work and party with your friends.

I just graduated. I did take a year off between my junior and senior year to work. I don't know, I got waitlisted at IU Maurer too and denied at UCLA. Maybe I should've applied to more places.

[isuperserial]

OP you're still in college? Dude you should take some time off and work. Especially if you have C&F issues, then reapply. You should have much better options than these two even if you don't retake. Take some time off to work and party with your friends.

I just graduated. I did take a year off between my junior and senior year to work. I don't know, I got waitlisted at IU Maurer too and denied at UCLA. Maybe I should've applied to more places.

Did you apply late? I have worse stats than you and was offered half to indiana. This simply does not compute. Maybe your little c and f issue was worse than you thought...

[metroidbum]

I wouldn't go with either of these options.

Games is an improvable section of the LSAT. Find a good LSAT study guide on this site and retake again. Or don't go at all.

[1Lmatic]

Did you apply late? I have worse stats than you and was offered half to indiana. This simply does not compute. Maybe your little c and f issue was worse than you thought...

I had my applications in by November. And no, I knew it was serious. It's just that it was a total out of character, one off incident, so I wasn't sure how much it would hurt me. It's hard to tell for sure if that's the reason I haven't gotten many acceptances, but I guess it probably is. Lots of people told me I probably wouldn't get in anywhere, but they didn't really know much about law school.

[cron1834]

This should be your preference hierarchy:

Use dat GPA + retake for free tuition at a better school > don't go at all >>>>>>>>>> Penn State >>>>>>>>>> W & L

[1Lmatic]

This should be your preference hierarchy:

Use dat GPA + retake for free tuition at a better school > don't go at all >>>>>>>>>> Penn State >>>>>>>>>> W & L

So you think if I retook, scored the same and got the same offers I shouldn't go to law school? It's better not to go to law school at all then to go for free at a middling regional school?

[cron1834]

Gun to my head, yes.

There are complicating factors, of course. Rich Family is always a good one. Guaranteed Job in Uncle's Firm is another. Barring some of these, I think that's the order.

But you can improve. I am also terrible at games, and my first diagnostic was about 160. I still suck at games, but with practice I got 168 on test day. I'm retaking - just gonna claw my way up a few more points. It sucks no doubt, but you gotta put in the work on the front-end to come out ahead, I think.

[rad lulz]

.

[lnh819]

Your best option is obviously retaking and going to UVA or Penn, hopefully with less than 50k of debt.

That said - Penn State for free won't ruin your life. You'll be stuck in the mid-PA area and will likely make 35-45k your first few years as a lawyer. If that's an acceptable outcome, go for it. Consider the Carlisle campus if you want a change of pace from the main campus.

Of course, your other option is to be a paralegal, make around the same salary, and not lose three years of your life.

[rickgrimes69]

What sort of C&F issue are we talking here?

[riverwater]

Solid username

[1Lmatic]

.

[LurkerShirker]

Just want to point out that your poll says "W&L at $35,000 a year", while your post says that this is actually the amount of the scholarship, not your cost of attendance. The option should say "W&L at $9,400 a year". I suspect your poll is a bit skewed towards Penn State by people who may not realize it.

For outcomes, you may want to look at the Above The Law rankings, which are primarily employment-driven, and gives more weight to the better jobs. W&L was #37 this year, #38 last year, while Penn State is unranked (they only rank the top 50) both years.

Although US News rankings are generally considered more bogus, Penn State's ranking before this year was primarily in the 60s and 70s.

[bugsy33]

Although US News rankings are generally considered more bogus, Penn State's ranking before this year was primarily in the 60s and 70s.

Not that it will matter, but you should expect Penn State to drop back into the 70's after last year's abysmal employment numbers. Obviously that's not the norm for PSU, but since the USNews is always a year behind on employment it'll come back to bite them.

Also, you should really take time off to separate yourself from that F charge. There are people on this forum that have done far worse and are at top schools. The key is to allow enough time to show that you've "rehabilitated" aka shown that this won't become a regular thing for you. You can actually make this work towards your app, but you've gotta have all your ducks in a row. I'd strongly suggest taking time off to work, let the legal market recover, and to separate yourself from the charges.

Source: Buddy is at a T-30 after going through a similar situation.

[donewithannarbor]

You've got a good deal and W & L, and it is markedly better in my view. PSU law may even be overrated imo. But it is free, so IF your affinity for PA is strong and/or you don't want anything to do with VA/DC (decent chance you'll work there for a few years), and/or you see yourself doing public interest type work in PA from the get-go rather than a big firm first, THEN go in on PSU.

[californiauser]

You assaulted a peace office. You should figure out if you can even pass the C&F portion of the bar, and I imagine it will be very, very difficult for you to find employment in the field of law with this charge on your record (and the odds are already stacked against you attending these schools anyway). If you haven't considered these things, you should.

[1Lmatic]

.