Top Law Schools

Just graduated and have a an entry-level job in Houston for a consulting company making around $40K. Enjoy the job, but not sure how far I can progress without an advanced degree at some point.

I have always wanted to go to law school, and made it a priority during my undergrad to intern at 3 law firms so I could actually know what lawyers do on a day-to-day basis. Took an LSAT Prep Course and was scoring in the low 160's and on the real test scored in the mid 150's (f****** logic games).

Anyway, I applied to Tech Law and got admitted and offered an $8,500 scholarship per year, as long as I stay in the top half of my class, and am trying to determine if I want to attend in the Fall of 2014.

I'm very familiar with Lubbock and Tech, so that's not a concern. My main concern is job prospects/salary potential. I'm not looking to join a prestigious big-law firm in Downtown New York. A mid-size family law firm in Dallas/Austin/Houston would be great. Or a government position (public defender maybe) for 10 years and then clear my debt and move onto a firm at that time would also be ideal.

But what is anyone's (who isn't a troll) opinion? After examining Tech's reported statistics (don't know how reliable those are) on their website, it seems the starting salary for a mid-size firm is around $60K. I'm sure I won't be making that on my current course in three years, so the $60-$80K in loans would surely be made up.

Get at me, please.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/texastech/2013/ This will give you legit data on the job hunt for TTU. Most people will tell you that a school on par with Texas Tech will only make sense with a minimal debt load.

Not sure where you got the $60,000-$80,000 in loans when LST says a resident will owe $152,492 at graduation, and you would take off $25,500 plus a margin of the interest, but that would still place you over $100,000.

Don't leave a $40k job for 100k debt and a 50% chance at landing a different 40-60k job.

Here are real employment stats:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/texastech/2013/

You should definitely retake the LSAT. The LG section is the easiest to improve on.

Keep debt to around 60k and I think your plan is fine. You should know mid-law is a real rarity, and the grades you would need for big law and mid law are going to be basically the same. Mid-law is a vague term that changes in definition based on where you are in the county. In NYC, mid-law firms are large, over 100 attorneys. In Denver, mid-law is like 15-30 person firms.

Dallas and Houston have large legal markets and "mid-law" is possible, but I think you should change your goal to small firms. Small firms of 2-10 often offer less pay and much better experience. Still, small firms in Denver pay 55k to 60k to I'm sure you can get that in a Texas metro area. These firms are also more likely to be obtained by hustle and networking, thus you won't have to rely on being in the top 10% at Tech. Finally with only 60k debt don't do the PD unless that is what you really want to do.

I don't know much about Texas in general, but would being in Lubbock make it more difficult to set yourself into Houston/Dallas/Austin, or would you have to rely solely on ties? I would think that TTU leads more of their grads towards Amarillo and other placed in Northwest Texas.

Don't leave a job you enjoy for Tech. Retake the LSAT and shoot for UT/SMU/UH!

nebula666 wrote:Don't leave a $40k job for 100k debt and a 50% chance at landing a different 40-60k job.

This is the best way to summarize your likely outcome.

Not sure why 0Ls assume that "midlaw is fine" as if it is easy to land. You should know that it is virtually non-existent and "mid-size family law firm" is definitely non-existent (or at least very very rare). Family law is generally solo practitioners or maybe a firm with 5-7 lawyers.

In short, don't go for the salary potential because like nebula said, it's not going to help you there.

If anything, you should at least retake for a scholarship at Houston.

I'm not one to talk, but you should retake. Logic Games are the easiest section to improve on. You could have a huge score swing by retaking. Keep working at your job and enjoy life for another year then reapply.

Retake. Don't leave a job for that school, or any law school without substantially improved EV.

bugsy33 wrote:I'm not one to talk, but you should retake. Logic Games are the easiest section to improve on. You could have a huge score swing by retaking. Keep working at your job and enjoy life for another year then reapply.

All of the advice on retaking is TCR. As stated, LG is the easiest score to improve. Work for 2 years, save some money, study 10-15 hours/week on nights and weekends, and get a full scholarship to UH/Baylor/SMU or significant $ to UT. You will have a better head on your shoulders after the WE, be more marketable, and have savings to help with cost. All of that on top of less debt at a better school. This should be your only option.

Thanks for the input everyone, I really appreciate it.

Just to clarify, when I said mid-size, I was trying to say somewhere in that 2-15 or so range. Guess small is probably a much better description for that.

For anyone not really familiar with Tech, their stats show that the majority of their grads go to DFW, Houston, West Texas, and then Austin. 3 of those 4 I wouldn't mind at all.

For my calculation of $60-$80K in debt, I put my tuition around $15k a year, and living around $8k(rent in lbk is extremely affordable).

My concern with retaking and trying to apply to one of the stronger schools in Texas (SMU, UH, and UT obviously) is that if I attend SMU or UT my overall debt load will increase quite a bit. And with none of these three am I guaranteed to come out making exponentially more than I would at Tech.

Also, my GPA isn't too strong. 3.2 from a regional school with a Business major. So I figure I would need a 165 or more to get the large scholarship that some of you are suggesting I pursue, especially from a school like UT.

im confused, if you retook and got near full ride at one of your choices like ttu... you profit?

if you're expanding your choices then you need to set your lsat bar higher to make sure you get a bigger $$$ from these schools. pretty simple

bobsaget0606 wrote:Also, my GPA isn't too strong. 3.2 from a regional school with a Business major. So I figure I would need a 165 or more to get the large scholarship that some of you are suggesting I pursue, especially from a school like UT.

seems like youre assuming its too hard to achieve. the lsat prep forum has plenty of guides that can help you get into that range.

just playing around with mylsn.info and you can see how much $$ ppl get with those numbers (ps they are pretty decent).

bobsaget0606 wrote:Also, my GPA isn't too strong. 3.2 from a regional school with a Business major. So I figure I would need a 165 or more to get the large scholarship that some of you are suggesting I pursue, especially from a school like UT.

If you haven't yet, play around with these websites:

http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/

ETA: Scooped.

bobsaget0606 wrote:My concern with retaking and trying to apply to one of the stronger schools in Texas (SMU, UH, and UT obviously) is that if I attend SMU or UT my overall debt load will increase quite a bit. And with none of these three am I guaranteed to come out making exponentially more than I would at Tech.

This doesn't make any sense. A retake isn't going to hurt you, and if you don't improve your score (though you should with proper prep), then you'll be in the same boat in a year or two, but you'll have some savings and WE. Even if you end up going to Tech with the same or marginally better scholarship, you'll still be in a better position.

Also, it's not that people from these other schools make "exponentially more" than Tech grads, it's just that you have a better chance at being employed period. Maybe it will be a higher salary or maybe it will be the same, but your odds of getting the job in the first place will improve. Plus, if your career goals change while you're in school, you'll have more flexibility at a school like UT.

nebula666 wrote:Don't leave a $40k job for 100k debt and a 50% chance at landing a different 40-60k job.

THIS!!

There is no doubt that the higher ranked schools will provide increased demand opportunity and that translates into $ at time of hire BUT don't the higher schools also have more competitive programs (dog-eat-dog student situation)?

And wouldn't it also be important for you to consider the school's program design to ensure you succeed? Ex. If you go to UT your in a top 15 program but if the teachers and TAs won't give you the time of day to get help, what are your chances of coming out with an "A" average? (Substitute any top/2nd tier school for that example)

Finally, in addressing the concern about the payback method, instead of the DA path, what about JAG Corps (ex. Navy?). Not sure if it is accurate but have heard it was pretty easy to get into JAG (would carry a 4 yr commit??) and that would also wipe out your debt? But unsure what it does to your marketability vs working as a DA vs anything else you might find as first job after graduation.

Not necessarily. If anything you can make the argument that lower ranked schools have the harder competition due to the scarcity of jobs out of those schools.

Program design or the way you made it out barely has any influence on a decision you should make. Everything should come down to where you want to practice, what you want to do, debt from the prospective school/lst stats. Figure out the risks involved after looking at those factors and see where you stand.

Not sure about JAG, someone else should chime in.

happytogetfeedback wrote:There is no doubt that the higher ranked schools will provide increased demand opportunity and that translates into $ at time of hire BUT don't the higher schools also have more competitive programs (dog-eat-dog student situation)?

And wouldn't it also be important for you to consider the school's program design to ensure you succeed? Ex. If you go to UT your in a top 15 program but if the teachers and TAs won't give you the time of day to get help, what are your chances of coming out with an "A" average? (Substitute any top/2nd tier school for that example)

Finally, in addressing the concern about the payback method, instead of the DA path, what about JAG Corps (ex. Navy?). Not sure if it is accurate but have heard it was pretty easy to get into JAG (would carry a 4 yr commit??) and that would also wipe out your debt? But unsure what it does to your marketability vs working as a DA vs anything else you might find as first job after graduation.

Texas Tech is really getting desperate with these shill accounts. Shady marketing tactics solidly put this school in the TTT category.

Also just lol at JAG corp being easy.

Mal Reynolds wrote:

happytogetfeedback wrote:There is no doubt that the higher ranked schools will provide increased demand opportunity and that translates into $ at time of hire BUT don't the higher schools also have more competitive programs (dog-eat-dog student situation)?

And wouldn't it also be important for you to consider the school's program design to ensure you succeed? Ex. If you go to UT your in a top 15 program but if the teachers and TAs won't give you the time of day to get help, what are your chances of coming out with an "A" average? (Substitute any top/2nd tier school for that example)

Finally, in addressing the concern about the payback method, instead of the DA path, what about JAG Corps (ex. Navy?). Not sure if it is accurate but have heard it was pretty easy to get into JAG (would carry a 4 yr commit??) and that would also wipe out your debt? But unsure what it does to your marketability vs working as a DA vs anything else you might find as first job after graduation.

Texas Tech is really getting desperate with these shill accounts. Shady marketing tactics solidly put this school in the TTT category.

Also just lol at JAG corp being easy.

I also don't get the Prof/TA not helping you thing. So at Texas Tech professors are willing to talk to and help their students (why? Because they have lower GPA/LSAT scores?) but at UT they aren't because the students are of a higher caliber and therefore more competitive with each other and therefore the professors are more choosy with who they help out? What?

OP- I wouldn't expect the average Tech grad to get a job in any of Houston/DFW/Austin/San Antonio. The pecking order in TX is basically:
1.Kids from T14s with ties
2.UT




3.Houston/SMU (depending on what city you're talking about)
4.And then maybe TTU alongside Baylor and the other random TTTTs like South Texas

There are only so many jobs to go around and unless you finish very high in your class/have great connections/nepotism going for you a TTU grade will be way down on the totem pole. Maybe there are some opportunities in West Texas/El Paso for Tech grades (although I'm sure the legal markets there are tiny) but for the most part you can forget about getting a job in the big Texas cities (especially Austin, even UT kids have a tough time cracking that nut) if you finish in the middle of the pack at Tech, which is by far your most likely outcome.

happytogetfeedback wrote:wouldn't it also be important for you to consider the school's program design to ensure you succeed? Ex. If you go to UT your in a top 15 program but if the teachers and TAs won't give you the time of day to get help, what are your chances of coming out with an "A" average? (Substitute any top/2nd tier school for that example)

At UT, your chances of getting an A- or better in any particular 1L class are 30-40%.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/sao/academics ... olicy.html

Even if everyone were locked in a dungeon for the entire semester they'd still have some sort of mandatory grade distribution. (See, e.g., http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/ha ... rs/grading)

1. OP - retake. For the love o Gawd

2. LOL at JAG being easy. It is one of the most selective set of programs ever. It took me 5 attempts with 4 services to get professionally selected for one. And I'm considered a lucky one. A lot of people try 10 or more times with 4 or 5 services to get in. I beat out 9 other applicants to be selected. And even if you get in you have to pass the medical... Which I didn't. So yeah, tl;dr - it's a bitch. Anyone actually interested should go to the Military Law thread.