Top Law Schools

bowser wrote:Columbia's COA is 60k more than Cornell's? That doesn't seem right.

But regardless, go to Cornell. Fergodsakes go to Cornell.

bruinfan10 wrote:Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

bruinfan10 wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

bruinfan10 wrote:Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

dude, columbia CoL is like $20K total. there's no way 20k more per year than anything, even living at home. If you want to live in a $3K/month apartment, that possibility is open to you but it's by now means required. You can easily get a $1050/month aptment in morning side.

That's really good to hear, it's just that all my friends who were looking for summer associate apartments in Manhattan paid north of $2k per month. Ithaca has sub-1k apartments. I'm not sure finding a $1k apartment near the Upper West Side is so doable. I know I sure as hell can't do that in SF, even looking at 12 month leases, and Manhattan is almost as expensive.

bruinfan10 wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

bruinfan10 wrote:Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

dude, columbia CoL is like $20K total. there's no way 20k more per year than anything, even living at home. If you want to live in a $3K/month apartment, that possibility is open to you but it's by now means required. You can easily get a $1050/month aptment in morning side.

That's really good to hear, it's just that all my friends who were looking for summer associate apartments in Manhattan paid north of $2k per month. Ithaca has sub-1k apartments. I'm not sure finding a $1k apartment near the Upper West Side is so doable. I know I sure as hell can't do that in SF, even looking at 12 month leases, and Manhattan is almost as expensive.

bowser wrote:I would ask current Cornell OCS and 2Ls and 3Ls how many CA firms come to OCI, and verify that the big CA offices (Latham, O Melveny, Gibson, etc.) all come. Generally all the big boys go to all of the T-14, but there are some oddities. Chicago's two big offices don't come to CLS, for instsance.

I think all the big LA and NorCal ones come to Michigan and CLS.

bruinfan10 wrote:Sorry to hijack this a little bit, but would anyone consider taking an offer from Columbia (100k debt at graduation), versus Cornell (no debt at graduation)? Say you were a little more SF Biglaw-or-bust / not open to NY Biglaw.

In a vacuum, a Columbia degree for 100k debt is a sweetheart deal, right? And doesn't Columbia help you in looking for clerkships, open up better firms with a lower GPA than you would need to get a callback at Cornell, etc? I'm just asking, isn't it plausible to take Columbia in that scenario? Couldn't you repay 100k debt in 2 years on a BigLaw salary?

bruinfan10 wrote:Sorry to hijack this a little bit, but would anyone consider taking an offer from Columbia (100k debt at graduation), versus Cornell (no debt at graduation)? Say you were a little more SF Biglaw-or-bust / not open to NY Biglaw.

In a vacuum, a Columbia degree for 100k debt is a sweetheart deal, right? And doesn't Columbia help you in looking for clerkships, open up better firms with a lower GPA than you would need to get a callback at Cornell, etc? I'm just asking, isn't it plausible to take Columbia in that scenario? Couldn't you repay 100k debt in 2 years on a BigLaw salary?

bruinfan10 wrote:

bowser wrote:I think most people would tell you it's not worth it b/c 100k debt v. no debt is an easy choice. Keeping your entire paycheck is a rarity these days, and a highly highly desirable position. I would tend to agree.

I guess it depends on the type of risk you are willing to incur. Does debt scare you more than striking out at OCI and having to go look for work on your own initiative, without the school bringing all of the interviewers to a hotel room to you? Or can you imagine yourself pulling through on your own initiative?

I don't think Columbia is any better than other top schools for clerkships; maybe in the NY area.

SF Biglaw or Bust from the east coast, including Columbia, is a dangerous proposition, and something that screws people or comes close to screwing people every year at OCI.

Regarding transitioning back to SF, I'm hoping CA ties will help somewhat--at offices I know out here, there are CLS grads but never Cornell grads.

Regarding the academic cushion Columbia gives (a median kid at CLS is going to have a much better time than a median kid at Cornell), the other consideration I've been kicking around, is maybe all those Cornell kids who get V100 jobs in NYC (which to my knowledge is why they have such a good LST employment score), are possibly at low-end V60-100 firms I've never heard of. I think there have to be a hell of a lot more DPW, STB, Cravath, S&C, and Weil kids coming out of Columbia than come out of Cornell, right? And if the typical "exit option" from Biglaw after people flame out in 3-5 years is lateraling to another firm a little lower on the prestige totem-pole, wouldn't it be better invest in Columbia and start at the top of the pole, versus starting at Cornell and finding yourself at a weaker firm with more limited lateral options for the rest of your career?

I'd be real interested in what some of the recent-grad megapoasters think of this as well, like Raynier, DF, rad lulz, Bruce Wayne....it seems like those bros seems to think a T6 is worth 100k. And as always, thanks for all the help you guys.

cotiger wrote:The more I've been on here, the more I've come to believe that people massively over-think this decision just in order to come up with justifications for what they wanted to do anyway. Like, I hate bigdebt but I still have some sort of preference for a nifty name, so big surprise I'm most likely ending up at CCN. I'm almost certain that all the threads I've read on employment outcomes aren't what led to me to that decision, and if anything I've come to the conclusion that the 75k COA difference between them and NU is probably too much.

And all this goes out the window if Berk matches, employment stats be damned, bc WEST.

People are going to do whatever they want to do, and so long as you make sure that they're not making a terrible, potentially life-ruining decision, there's nothing you really can/should do to stop them. If your brother really wants to go to CLS, he'll be convinced by the V-whatever 'stige being worth the money. If he doesn't, then he probably won't.

jbagelboy wrote:

cotiger wrote:The more I've been on here, the more I've come to believe that people massively over-think this decision just in order to come up with justifications for what they wanted to do anyway. Like, I hate bigdebt but I still have some sort of preference for a nifty name, so big surprise I'm most likely ending up at CCN. I'm almost certain that all the threads I've read on employment outcomes aren't what led to me to that decision, and if anything I've come to the conclusion that the 75k COA difference between them and NU is probably too much.

And all this goes out the window if Berk matches, employment stats be damned, bc WEST.

People are going to do whatever they want to do, and so long as you make sure that they're not making a terrible, potentially life-ruining decision, there's nothing you really can/should do to stop them. If your brother really wants to go to CLS, he'll be convinced by the V-whatever 'stige being worth the money. If he doesn't, then he probably won't.

i'm really curious where you are headed this fall