Columbia ($) vs. Michigan ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$) Forum

[bayareabruin]

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[bowser]

Columbia's COA is 60k more than Cornell's? That doesn't seem right.

But regardless, go to Cornell. Fergodsakes go to Cornell.

[buffalo_]

Columbia's COA is 60k more than Cornell's? That doesn't seem right.

But regardless, go to Cornell. Fergodsakes go to Cornell.

Yeah I was going to say the same thing. I compared CLS to Cornell too, but I didn't get that wide of a gap.

Going back to Cali from Cornell might be tough, but you can get a degree for 15k! Can't go wrong with a choice like that.

[bruinfan10]

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[jbagelboy]

I would go to Cornell and hope strong ties will be enough for CA.

I'm sure CLS is not that pricy based on how many savings you'd have to get Cornell to $15K with that scholarship, but it's moot because there's no way any school is worth that much over Cornell for big law.

[jbagelboy]

Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

dude, columbia CoL is like $20K total. there's no way 20k more per year than anything, even living at home. If you want to live in a $3K/month apartment, that possibility is open to you but it's by now means required. You can easily get a $1050/month aptment in morning side.

also 12 months? what are you talking about - vast majority of cornell grads summer in NYC anyway. So they're paying 9 months of Ithaca rent and 3 months of nyc rent either way. and the Ithaca rent is probably only $300-400 less.

[bruinfan10]

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[bayareabruin]

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[buffalo_]

Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

dude, columbia CoL is like $20K total. there's no way 20k more per year than anything, even living at home. If you want to live in a $3K/month apartment, that possibility is open to you but it's by now means required. You can easily get a $1050/month aptment in morning side.

That's really good to hear, it's just that all my friends who were looking for summer associate apartments in Manhattan paid north of $2k per month. Ithaca has sub-1k apartments. I'm not sure finding a $1k apartment near the Upper West Side is so doable. I know I sure as hell can't do that in SF, even looking at 12 month leases, and Manhattan is almost as expensive.

CLS actually rents apartments at about $900 per month to law students. So it's tough but no impossible. If you were looking on your own, (no school assistance) then I think you would be hard pressed to find something sub-$1k.

[jbagelboy]

Can I ask why the one Michigan person (as of this second) voted that way? I would've thought the decision was easily between Columbia and Cornell.

In terms of the COA difference between Cornell and Columbia, I don't think it's crazy to expect Manhattan would cost 20k more per year than Ithaca. $1000 more for an apartment times 12 months is already a $12k difference in COA, and food/entertainment/everything costs more in Manhattan.

dude, columbia CoL is like $20K total. there's no way 20k more per year than anything, even living at home. If you want to live in a $3K/month apartment, that possibility is open to you but it's by now means required. You can easily get a $1050/month aptment in morning side.

That's really good to hear, it's just that all my friends who were looking for summer associate apartments in Manhattan paid north of $2k per month. Ithaca has sub-1k apartments. I'm not sure finding a $1k apartment near the Upper West Side is so doable. I know I sure as hell can't do that in SF, even looking at 12 month leases, and Manhattan is almost as expensive.

I completely agree it's nearly impossible for any normal non-associated individual to find competitive prices in manhattan proper, but that's why Columbia subsidizes housing for law students. You are guaranteed housing and they can place you in a 3 bedroom shared apartment @ $1K/month if you want it.

[bruinfan10]

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[staysha]

Cornell. If you do decent you'll have a good shot at getting back to CA. Also, you're open to NY biglaw. 15k at Cornell is an amazing position to be in.

[wiltthestilt]

Go to Cornell dude. You can pay off your student loan in under a year. That is basically a free law degree at a T14. Michigan isn't worth 80k (if any) more than Cornell, and Columbia sure isn't worth 175k if you have a free option to an almost peer school.

[bowser]

I would ask current Cornell OCS and 2Ls and 3Ls how many CA firms come to OCI, and verify that the big CA offices (Latham, O Melveny, Gibson, etc.) all come. Generally all the big boys go to all of the T-14, but there are some oddities. Chicago's two big offices don't come to CLS, for instsance.

I think all the big LA and NorCal ones come to Michigan and CLS.

[hephaestus]

I would ask current Cornell OCS and 2Ls and 3Ls how many CA firms come to OCI, and verify that the big CA offices (Latham, O Melveny, Gibson, etc.) all come. Generally all the big boys go to all of the T-14, but there are some oddities. Chicago's two big offices don't come to CLS, for instsance.

I think all the big LA and NorCal ones come to Michigan and CLS.

All of the big firms come to OCI, and many let you choose the specific office you are interviewing for (for example, last year GDC had interview slots just for NY, and then separate interview slots for literally every other office, and many other firms did the same). Additionally, there is a California focused student group with a sole purpose of getting students back to California.

Given the amount of money, I do not think this is particularly close.

Eta: full disclosure, current Cornell 2L. Feel free to PM if you have more specific questions.

[bayareabruin]

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[bruinfan10]

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[jbagelboy]

Sorry to hijack this a little bit, but would anyone consider taking an offer from Columbia (100k debt at graduation), versus Cornell (no debt at graduation)? Say you were a little more SF Biglaw-or-bust / not open to NY Biglaw.

In a vacuum, a Columbia degree for 100k debt is a sweetheart deal, right? And doesn't Columbia help you in looking for clerkships, open up better firms with a lower GPA than you would need to get a callback at Cornell, etc? I'm just asking, isn't it plausible to take Columbia in that scenario? Couldn't you repay 100k debt in 2 years on a BigLaw salary?

For NY, I'd take Cornell still. 0 debt, I mean, that's a sweet deal. Idk.

For CA or international, I'd go to Columbia.

[bowser]

Sorry to hijack this a little bit, but would anyone consider taking an offer from Columbia (100k debt at graduation), versus Cornell (no debt at graduation)? Say you were a little more SF Biglaw-or-bust / not open to NY Biglaw.

In a vacuum, a Columbia degree for 100k debt is a sweetheart deal, right? And doesn't Columbia help you in looking for clerkships, open up better firms with a lower GPA than you would need to get a callback at Cornell, etc? I'm just asking, isn't it plausible to take Columbia in that scenario? Couldn't you repay 100k debt in 2 years on a BigLaw salary?

I think most people would tell you it's not worth it b/c 100k debt v. no debt is an easy choice. Keeping your entire paycheck is a rarity these days, and a highly highly desirable position. I would tend to agree.

I guess it depends on the type of risk you are willing to incur. Does debt scare you more than striking out at OCI and having to go look for work on your own initiative, without the school bringing all of the interviewers to a hotel room to you? Or can you imagine yourself pulling through on your own initiative?

I don't think Columbia is any better than other top schools for clerkships; maybe in the NY area.

SF Biglaw or Bust from the east coast, including Columbia, is a dangerous proposition, and something that screws people or comes close to screwing people every year at OCI.

[bruinfan10]

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[cotiger]

I think most people would tell you it's not worth it b/c 100k debt v. no debt is an easy choice. Keeping your entire paycheck is a rarity these days, and a highly highly desirable position. I would tend to agree.

I guess it depends on the type of risk you are willing to incur. Does debt scare you more than striking out at OCI and having to go look for work on your own initiative, without the school bringing all of the interviewers to a hotel room to you? Or can you imagine yourself pulling through on your own initiative?

I don't think Columbia is any better than other top schools for clerkships; maybe in the NY area.

SF Biglaw or Bust from the east coast, including Columbia, is a dangerous proposition, and something that screws people or comes close to screwing people every year at OCI.

Regarding transitioning back to SF, I'm hoping CA ties will help somewhat--at offices I know out here, there are CLS grads but never Cornell grads.

Regarding the academic cushion Columbia gives (a median kid at CLS is going to have a much better time than a median kid at Cornell), the other consideration I've been kicking around, is maybe all those Cornell kids who get V100 jobs in NYC (which to my knowledge is why they have such a good LST employment score), are possibly at low-end V60-100 firms I've never heard of. I think there have to be a hell of a lot more DPW, STB, Cravath, S&C, and Weil kids coming out of Columbia than come out of Cornell, right? And if the typical "exit option" from Biglaw after people flame out in 3-5 years is lateraling to another firm a little lower on the prestige totem-pole, wouldn't it be better invest in Columbia and start at the top of the pole, versus starting at Cornell and finding yourself at a weaker firm with more limited lateral options for the rest of your career?

I'd be real interested in what some of the recent-grad megapoasters think of this as well, like Raynier, DF, rad lulz, Bruce Wayne....it seems like those bros seems to think a T6 is worth 100k. And as always, thanks for all the help you guys.

They think that a T6 is worth 100k debt. They don't think it's worth 100k more than lower T14, not by a long shot.

You'll most likely be fine either way, and it sounds like you'd rather be at Columbia. I'd pick Cornell and have no debt coming out of a top law school, but idk it's your life.

[bruinfan10]

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[cotiger]

The more I've been on here, the more I've come to believe that people massively over-think this decision just in order to come up with justifications for what they wanted to do anyway. Like, I hate bigdebt but I still have some sort of preference for a nifty name, so big surprise I'm most likely ending up at CCN. I'm almost certain that all the threads I've read on employment outcomes aren't what led to me to that decision, and if anything I've come to the conclusion that the 75k COA difference between them and NU is probably too much.

And all this goes out the window if Berk matches, employment stats be damned, bc WEST.

People are going to do whatever they want to do, and so long as you make sure that they're not making a terrible, potentially life-ruining decision, there's nothing you really can/should do to stop them. If your brother really wants to go to CLS, he'll be convinced by the V-whatever 'stige being worth the money. If he doesn't, then he probably won't.

[jbagelboy]

The more I've been on here, the more I've come to believe that people massively over-think this decision just in order to come up with justifications for what they wanted to do anyway. Like, I hate bigdebt but I still have some sort of preference for a nifty name, so big surprise I'm most likely ending up at CCN. I'm almost certain that all the threads I've read on employment outcomes aren't what led to me to that decision, and if anything I've come to the conclusion that the 75k COA difference between them and NU is probably too much.

And all this goes out the window if Berk matches, employment stats be damned, bc WEST.

People are going to do whatever they want to do, and so long as you make sure that they're not making a terrible, potentially life-ruining decision, there's nothing you really can/should do to stop them. If your brother really wants to go to CLS, he'll be convinced by the V-whatever 'stige being worth the money. If he doesn't, then he probably won't.

i'm really curious where you are headed this fall

[cotiger]

The more I've been on here, the more I've come to believe that people massively over-think this decision just in order to come up with justifications for what they wanted to do anyway. Like, I hate bigdebt but I still have some sort of preference for a nifty name, so big surprise I'm most likely ending up at CCN. I'm almost certain that all the threads I've read on employment outcomes aren't what led to me to that decision, and if anything I've come to the conclusion that the 75k COA difference between them and NU is probably too much.

And all this goes out the window if Berk matches, employment stats be damned, bc WEST.

People are going to do whatever they want to do, and so long as you make sure that they're not making a terrible, potentially life-ruining decision, there's nothing you really can/should do to stop them. If your brother really wants to go to CLS, he'll be convinced by the V-whatever 'stige being worth the money. If he doesn't, then he probably won't.

i'm really curious where you are headed this fall

me too lol. deposited at chi, nyu, and nu. waiting on finaid at cls and matching decision at berk. berk match would probably be #1, chi or nyu otherwise.

i'm excited for this process to be over.