BU v BC v Emory Forum

[Ngoblue2014]

thank you!

[cron1834]

Is this just crazy talk, or ... why isn't UMich in the discussion here?

OP, are you just throwing darts at a wall map to determine schools/regions? It's not clear how literally any of them are going to be good decisions for you.

OP was rejected from UMich and withdrew his acceptance from Michigan State. Here is OPs LSN profile, for some illumination on his admissions process: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Nateumich2014. I've never understood why TLS likes to continually rehash advice with the same person and give advice beyond the scope of the OP. OP understands his situation, the options available, and his ultimate objectives.

From previous threads: He wants to work in BigLaw outside of Michigan for 5-10 years, then return to Michigan and work in a solo/small firm with a longterm goal of entering Michigan politics. He has a strong network in Michigan. He has ties in Miami and Boston. He is comfortable with the risk of attending BU/BC/Emory understanding their chances of BigLaw employment. His education is paid for, so COA is irrelevant.

Are you actually serious? 99% of the reasons for those confusions tend to be that that people a) create multiple threads for the same situation and b) do not include relevant information in the OP asked for in the "READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM!" demand (both of which are a problem here, btw).

Take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else. The OP's plan is stupid. You seem to be the only one not admitting it.

[HRomanus]

Are you actually serious? 99% of the reasons for those confusions tend to be that that people a) create multiple threads for the same situation and b) do not include relevant information asked for in the "READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM!" demand.

Take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else. The OP's plan is stupid. You seem to be the only one not admitting it.

I wouldn't embark on the OP's plan and I think it is unnecessarily risky. I think he has better options. I think he should attend a Midwest regional school. But the OP has already heard that (admittedly, on several other threads). It is far more relevant and helpful to OP to give advice within the scope he set - choosing between BU, BC, and Emory.

As a side note, OP sounds like he has an awesome background and it sounds like he'll be successful in his chosen course. I think his best course is BU/BC, but I'd love to be in classes and organizations with him at Emory.

[cron1834]

Are you actually serious? 99% of the reasons for those confusions tend to be that that people a) create multiple threads for the same situation and b) do not include relevant information asked for in the "READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM!" demand.

Take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else. The OP's plan is stupid. You seem to be the only one not admitting it.

I wouldn't embark on the OP's plan and I think it is unnecessarily risky. I think he has better options. I think he should attend a Midwest regional school. But the OP has already heard that (admittedly, on several other threads). It is far more relevant and helpful to OP to give advice within the scope he set - choosing between BU, BC, and Emory.

As a side note, OP sounds like he has an awesome background and it sounds like he'll be successful in his chosen course. I think his best course is BU/BC, but I'd love to be in classes and organizations with him at Emory.

Def.

OP, Good luck! Follow your dreams!

[HRomanus]

Are you actually serious? 99% of the reasons for those confusions tend to be that that people a) create multiple threads for the same situation and b) do not include relevant information asked for in the "READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM!" demand.

Take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else. The OP's plan is stupid. You seem to be the only one not admitting it.

I wouldn't embark on the OP's plan and I think it is unnecessarily risky. I think he has better options. I think he should attend a Midwest regional school. But the OP has already heard that (admittedly, on several other threads). It is far more relevant and helpful to OP to give advice within the scope he set - choosing between BU, BC, and Emory.

As a side note, OP sounds like he has an awesome background and it sounds like he'll be successful in his chosen course. I think his best course is BU/BC, but I'd love to be in classes and organizations with him at Emory.

Def.

OP, Good luck! Follow your dreams!

Consider this though: His COA is $0 and he has strong network connections in Michigan. If he strikes out at making BigLaw, he can return to Michigan and work in a smaller firm without any debt issues. His course is absurd for the vast majority of law school applicants, but his safety net enables him to be more risky for a higher ceiling.

[Ngoblue2014]

HRomanus thank you very much, you have said for me what for some reason i have struggled to articulate

[cron1834]

HR - more insulation/safety, sure. But if you could go for free to any school you had the LSAT for, you would certainly not make any of these choices. I want to make sure that doesn't get lost here!

[HRomanus]

HR - more insulation/safety, sure. But if you could go for free to any school you had the LSAT for, you would certainly not make any of these choices. I want to make sure that doesn't get lost here!

+1

So far as opportunity for BigLaw, these seem to be his best options without a retake. I wouldn't take the risk, but he definitely understands and feels comfortable with it.

[cotiger]

Is this just crazy talk, or ... why isn't UMich in the discussion here?

OP, are you just throwing darts at a wall map to determine schools/regions? It's not clear how literally any of them are going to be good decisions for you.

OP was rejected from UMich and withdrew his acceptance from Michigan State. Here is OPs LSN profile, for some illumination on his admissions process: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Nateumich2014. I've never understood why TLS likes to continually rehash advice with the same person and give advice beyond the scope of the OP. OP understands his situation, the options available, and his ultimate objectives.

From previous threads: He wants to work in BigLaw outside of Michigan for 5-10 years, then return to Michigan and work in a solo/small firm with a longterm goal of entering Michigan politics. He has a strong network in Michigan. He has ties in Miami and Boston. He is comfortable with the risk of attending BU/BC/Emory understanding their chances of BigLaw employment. His education is paid for, so COA is irrelevant.

Just because he has the cash on hand doesn't make COA irrelevant.

I'd rather take UIUC for free and have $100k in my bank account than BU/BC and be at zero.

Which is what I think OP should do. You're from the midwest, you want to eventually be in the midwest, you should stay in the midwest. You'd be banking the $100k while going to a school with identical employment outcomes in the region (roughly) you want to be in.

[cotiger]

Except I just noticed that OP withdrew from that offer.

OP seems lost.

[Otunga]

HR - more insulation/safety, sure. But if you could go for free to any school you had the LSAT for, you would certainly not make any of these choices. I want to make sure that doesn't get lost here!

+1

So far as opportunity for BigLaw, these seem to be his best options without a retake. I wouldn't take the risk, but he definitely understands and feels comfortable with it.

He's good with it all, but he's still overspending on the schools in consideration. You shouldn't invest that much for a 1/4 chance or a little better at a well-paying job. (I'm supposing the majority of non-biglaw pays between 40-55k. 60-70k is another ballgame and is a reasonable salary to acquire. But it doesn't appear frequent for new graduates out of law school. Maybe relatively a decent amount from HYS and CCN are landing higher salaries at non-biglaw firms. Not sure if the data supports that. )

[cotiger]

Maybe relatively a decent amount from HYS and CCN are landing higher salaries at non-biglaw firms. Not sure if the data supports that. )

Interestingly, they do. Check out these three reports from schools on different rungs of the ladder:

Here's Columbia's NALP from c/o 2011: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... NALP/2011/
Berkeley's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/
And UT's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/

Almost every single person who went to a law firm of any size from Columbia was making $100k+. Even the 8 people in 2-10 person firms had 80/90/120 splits.

At Berkeley and UT, the 2-10 firm people were stuck around $60k, while 11-25s were around $90k, and 25+s were $100k+. The difference between Berk and UT is that many more people at UT are in those 2-10 jobs.

The evidence that we have from BU/BC indicates that in addition to the 2-10s, the 11-50s are also stuck around 60k, while many of their biglaw positions do not pay market.

[Otunga]

Maybe relatively a decent amount from HYS and CCN are landing higher salaries at non-biglaw firms. Not sure if the data supports that. )

Interestingly, they do. Check out these three reports from schools on different rungs of the ladder:

Here's Columbia's NALP from c/o 2011: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... NALP/2011/
Berkeley's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/
And UT's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/

Almost every single person who went to a law firm of any size from Columbia was making $100k+. Even the 8 people in 2-10 person firms had 80/90/120 splits.

At Berkeley and UT, the 2-10 firm people were stuck around $60k, while 11-25s were around $90k, and 25+s were $100k+. The difference between Berk and UT is that many more people at UT are in those 2-10 jobs.

The evidence that we have from BU/BC indicates that in addition to the 2-10s, the 11-50s are also stuck around 60k, while many of their biglaw positions do not pay market.

Thanks for that. I often perceive many of those jobs as plain shitlaw, but at least to me, 60k isn't quite a shitlaw salary if you have minimal debt.

[cotiger]

Maybe relatively a decent amount from HYS and CCN are landing higher salaries at non-biglaw firms. Not sure if the data supports that. )

Interestingly, they do. Check out these three reports from schools on different rungs of the ladder:

Here's Columbia's NALP from c/o 2011: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... NALP/2011/
Berkeley's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/
And UT's from c/o 2012: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... more/2012/

Almost every single person who went to a law firm of any size from Columbia was making $100k+. Even the 8 people in 2-10 person firms had 80/90/120 splits.

At Berkeley and UT, the 2-10 firm people were stuck around $60k, while 11-25s were around $90k, and 25+s were $100k+. The difference between Berk and UT is that many more people at UT are in those 2-10 jobs.

The evidence that we have from BU/BC indicates that in addition to the 2-10s, the 11-50s are also stuck around 60k, while many of their biglaw positions do not pay market.

Thanks for that. I often perceive many of those jobs as plain shitlaw, but at least to me, 60k isn't quite a shitlaw salary if you have minimal debt.

Well, one word of warning. UT and Berkeley had a nearly 100% response rate for people in firms of 11+. For 2-10, it was 5/10 at Berkeley and 28/46 at UT. It's certainly possible that many or most of those who didn't respond were in the true shitlaw category of $40-50k salaries.

eta: And those small law positions at BU/BC are almost certainly the true shitlaw level. I mean, BU had an lolworthy 6/29 respond for 2-25. BC had 9/26 for their 2-10s and even still only managed 45/60/60 splits.