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I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:46 pm
by Mohammadn
Hello there,
I would very much appreciate any suggestions or advice you may offer me regarding choosing the correct law school. I have been accepted to 12 schools and I have narrowed it down to 4.
1) I have been accepted to University of Nevada, Las Vegas. They are ranked 83 and they have offered me half tuition paid. The tuition for in-state residents (I live in Las Vegas) is $26K. I am also living at home with my parents so I would have little to no living expenses. Therefore, I can graduate with debt under $40K. However, UNLV is a regional school and I don't see myself practicing in Las Vegas.
2) I have been admitted to the University of New Hampshire. They are ranked 93 and they have offered me a $30K scholarship. Their tuition is $40K so I would only be paying around $10K for tuition. It is low ranked but their intellectual property program is ranked 9 in the country and that is a field I am interested in. However, I don't see myself living in Concord, NH for three years. The school is designated as national but the majority of students end up practicing in New Hampshire or Massachusetts. Not bad options but those are not the states I ideally want to practice in.
3) I have been admitted to the University of Richmond. They are ranked 51 but they haven't offered me any money. It is a great school and it is located in the area I want to practice in (the mid-Atlantic). However, the cost of attendance is $55K a year.
4) I have also been admitted to the University of Maryland. It is ranked 46 and they have offered me $6000 (almost nothing). It is also a great school and it is also located in the area I want to practice in. However, the COA is $70K (minus the $6K).
So my options are:
1) Stay home, graduate with minimal debt, but get stuck in an area I don't want to practice in.
2) Move to Concord (a place I'm not too crazy about), graduate with minimal debt, but practice in an area I am not too crazy about.
3&4) Go to great schools with higher rankings, in an area I would love to practice in, but graduate with a sky high debt.
Please help!
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:48 pm
by rinkrat19
5) Get a job and study the LSAT for a year and retake, getting into schools worth attending, with better scholarships.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:51 pm
by TheSpanishMain
I think you're overestimating how "great" Richmond and Maryland are. They're average. They're potentially good choices for people looking for small law/local government in Maryland/Richmond who are going on full rides. Forget the USNWR nonsense.
Go with Option 5.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:52 pm
by rad lulz
TheSpanishMain wrote:I think you're overestimating how "great" Richmond and Maryland are. They're average. They're potentially good choices for people looking for small law/local government in Maryland/Richmond who are going on full rides. Forget the USNWR nonsense.
Go with Option 5.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:55 pm
by TooOld4This
rinkrat19 wrote:5) Get a job and study the LSAT for a year and retake, getting into schools worth attending, with better scholarships.
This is the only correct option (other than decide to do something other than law school).
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:56 pm
by NYSprague
Mohammadn wrote:Hello there,
I would very much appreciate any suggestions or advice you may offer me regarding choosing the correct law school. I have been accepted to 12 schools and I have narrowed it down to 4.
1) I have been accepted to University of Nevada, Las Vegas. They are ranked 83 and they have offered me half tuition paid. The tuition for in-state residents (I live in Las Vegas) is $26K. I am also living at home with my parents so I would have little to no living expenses. Therefore, I can graduate with debt under $40K. However, UNLV is a regional school and I don't see myself practicing in Las Vegas.
2) I have been admitted to the University of New Hampshire. They are ranked 93 and they have offered me a $30K scholarship. Their tuition is $40K so I would only be paying around $10K for tuition. It is low ranked but their intellectual property program is ranked 9 in the country and that is a field I am interested in. However, I don't see myself living in Concord, NH for three years. The school is designated as national but the majority of students end up practicing in New Hampshire or Massachusetts. Not bad options but those are not the states I ideally want to practice in.
3) I have been admitted to the University of Richmond. They are ranked 51 but they haven't offered me any money. It is a great school and it is located in the area I want to practice in (the mid-Atlantic). However, the cost of attendance is $55K a year.
4) I have also been admitted to the University of Maryland. It is ranked 46 and they have offered me $6000 (almost nothing). It is also a great school and it is also located in the area I want to practice in. However, the COA is $70K (minus the $6K).
So my options are:
1) Stay home, graduate with minimal debt, but get stuck in an area I don't want to practice in.
2) Move to Concord (a place I'm not too crazy about), graduate with minimal debt, but practice in an area I am not too crazy about.
3&4) Go to great schools with higher rankings, in an area I would love to practice in, but graduate with a sky high debt.
Please help!
Here is some advice:
You need to check law school transparency to understand the likelihood of getting a job as a lawyer from any of these schools.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/
Don't go to a specialty program at a school, because they are marketing tools for the school.
You need ties to an area to get a job. Just going to law school there isn't enough because they will feel that you will move back home. If you know you prefer to live and work somewhere else, move there first.
None of these schools are worth what they are charging you. If you absolutely won't listen and insist on going, stay home and go for minimal debt. If I were in Las Vegas I would do everything I could to get into the gaming business. But you really should not go to any of these schools and expect to get a job as a lawyer.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:56 pm
by 84651846190
Do not go to any of those law schools. They are not worth how much you would pay in lost time/wages, in addition to what they want to charge you for tuition.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:58 pm
by rstahl
rinkrat19 wrote:5) Get a job and study the LSAT for a year and retake, getting into schools worth attending, with better scholarships.
Even though I find TLS to be a tad too retake-happy in the advice department, I ABSOLUTELY have to agree on this one that option 5 is your only option without a doubt.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:01 pm
by transferror
rad lulz wrote:TheSpanishMain wrote:I think you're overestimating how "great" Richmond and Maryland are. They're average. They're potentially good choices for people looking for small law/local government in Maryland/Richmond who are going on full rides. Forget the USNWR nonsense.
Go with Option 5.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:15 pm
by ucla2017
rstahl wrote:rinkrat19 wrote:5) Get a job and study the LSAT for a year and retake, getting into schools worth attending, with better scholarships.
Even though I find TLS to be a tad too retake-happy in the advice department, I ABSOLUTELY have to agree on this one that option 5 is your only option without a doubt.
Agreed. Or at least try getting a full-ride to one of these schools including COL. The chances of being employed, or even being a lawyer is low for these schools.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:15 pm
by Nucky
TooOld4This wrote:rinkrat19 wrote:5) Get a job and study the LSAT for a year and retake, getting into schools worth attending, with better scholarships.
This is the only correct option (other than decide to do something other than law school).
Good luck! Follow your dreams!... And by that I mean retake.
Maryland and Richmond are decent options but not at sticker, or anywhere close.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:26 pm
by Nucky
I'm guessing you're new to TLS, otherwise you'd know better than to even ask. So with that in mind you should know that we aren't a bunch of elitist T14 for free or bust snobs, as we are often accused of being. Check out
http://www.lawschooltransparency.com and look at their employment numbers, as well as the types of jobs their graduates are getting. Also, someone else can probably break it down better for you than I can, but look into what it means to take out $250k in debt. Repayment would likely take over 10 years at these schools, and you'll live with an enormous amount of stress trying to keep up with the absurdly high monthly payments.
Your best options here mean financial suicide for practically everyone outside of the valedictorians(who probably have scholarships to begin with).
If you go to UNLV or UNH, be prepared to practice in those areas. Very few schools outside the T14 provide legitimate mobility for their graduates.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:58 pm
by NorCalLaw
Why do you want to practice law? Only 50% of law graduates land real jobs, and lots of them are very stressful and low-paying. Please make sure that you are making an informed decision if you decide to attend. Posting here was a great first step. Here are the relevant pieces of employment data, which mean much more than a USNWR ranking number:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/unlv/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/nh/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/richmond/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/maryland/
All of these schools are regional schools, and you will probably only be able to find jobs close by, if at all, unless you end up in the top 10% of the class or have special connections.
If you ignore the excellent advice offered here and insist on attending this year, at least take the local money and live at home to attend to minimize your costs. The other schools listed don't offer substantially better outcomes for the vast majority of their students, despite being "better schools" in ranking. Yes, you'll be stuck in Nevada, but a least there are still a few law jobs there, even if they aren't biglaw. Plus, your ties to the region will open doors. You probably aren't getting into biglaw at any of those schools, anyway.
If any of your scholarships come with stipulations (look carefully to see if they require "top 50% of class" or similar) then you should factor that in- it's basically a one-year offer with the POSSIBILITY of renewal, not a true scholarship.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:09 pm
by Nomo
Definitely option 5. The legal market is terrible. Those options would have been great 20 years ago. They won't cut it today. The LST reports don't lie.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:02 pm
by BigZuck
The only choice that makes any sense is UNLV but only if you're ok with small firm/government type work. Since you don't want to live in NV your only choice is to retake and reapply to different schools.
Just FYI: Columbia is a great school. Cornell is a great school. Richmond and Maryland are ok schools for people with ties to the states those schools are in who have modest career goals and want to work in those states long term.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:59 pm
by raininthedesert
TheSpanishMain wrote:I think you're overestimating how "great" Richmond and Maryland are. They're average. They're potentially good choices for people looking for small law/local government in Maryland/Richmond who are going on full rides. Forget the USNWR nonsense.
Go with Option 5.
Agreed. Richmond and Maryland are by no means "great" law schools and are certainly not better than UNLV simply because of the rankings. UNLV is equal to Richmond and Maryland. All three are legitimate feeder schools in urban markets. Externships would be best at both UNLV and Maryland during the school year and better at UNLV during the summer -- competition is intense in both markets during summers but out of control anywhere around D.C.
If you refuse to retake, then you are crazy not to go to UNLV at half in-state tuition while living with your parents at close to zero COA. UNLV has mobility in the Southwest and your best bet is to build your career somewhere without debt hanging over you.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:05 pm
by CaveCanem
ASSUMING YOU HAVE DECIDED 100% on matriculating in 2014, and MD is your decided place of employment, This is a no-brainer IMO for Maryland. Just trying to answer the (wo)man's question.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:13 pm
by BigZuck
CaveCanem wrote:ASSUMING YOU HAVE DECIDED 100% on matriculating in 2014, and MD is your decided place of employment, This is a no-brainer IMO for Maryland. Just trying to answer the (wo)man's question.
No way. Basically out of state sticker at Maryland would be insane
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:13 pm
by CaveCanem
BigZuck wrote:CaveCanem wrote:ASSUMING YOU HAVE DECIDED 100% on matriculating in 2014, and MD is your decided place of employment, This is a no-brainer IMO for Maryland. Just trying to answer the (wo)man's question.
No way. Basically out of state sticker at Maryland would be insane
Most of the choices are insane. You would take Richmond at 55k a year over Maryland?
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:17 pm
by eljefe1
Moody's rating agent here.
All options are AAa. Invest in school of choice.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:23 pm
by sublime
..
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:28 pm
by BigZuck
CaveCanem wrote:BigZuck wrote:CaveCanem wrote:ASSUMING YOU HAVE DECIDED 100% on matriculating in 2014, and MD is your decided place of employment, This is a no-brainer IMO for Maryland. Just trying to answer the (wo)man's question.
No way. Basically out of state sticker at Maryland would be insane
Most of the choices are insane. You would take Richmond at 55k a year over Maryland?
What are you talking about?
If I had to choose between shooting myself in my right foot or my left foot, I wouldn't choose either.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:31 pm
by B.B. Homemaker
BigZuck wrote:If I had to choose between shooting myself in my right foot or my left foot, I wouldn't choose either.
And he's right. Take rink's advice, give the LSAT another go, and see where you're at in a year. Any of the above at a price above zero is almost certainly a disastrous idea.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:52 pm
by CaveCanem
BigZuck wrote:CaveCanem wrote:BigZuck wrote:CaveCanem wrote:ASSUMING YOU HAVE DECIDED 100% on matriculating in 2014, and MD is your decided place of employment, This is a no-brainer IMO for Maryland. Just trying to answer the (wo)man's question.
No way. Basically out of state sticker at Maryland would be insane
Most of the choices are insane. You would take Richmond at 55k a year over Maryland?
What are you talking about?
If I had to choose between shooting myself in my right foot or my left foot, I wouldn't choose either.
What are you talking about? He asked us to pick between those choices. Good or bad, they're his choices and I picked one.
Re: I need help choosing a law school please.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:09 pm
by BigZuck
What are you talking about? I said the only one that makes any sense is UNLV, and you're saying I would say to choose Richmond over Maryland. Both are objectively terrible decisions.
Stop being weird.