Top Law Schools

I am considering 4 schools and will be attempting to transfer to a Top 10 (UVA or UPenn) after my 1L year. I am wondering which option will put me in the best position to transfer, taking cost and school rank into consideration. I also want to make sure that I can be top of my class to transfer, which I will have a better shot at in lower ranking schools. Thoughts??

Background: My LSAT was 161, GPA 3.64. I have been working for 2.5 years in the US Senate. I'm currently on Duke, GULC, and UVA's waitlists but am not considering them in my deposit decision. I've included my 4 options below. The COA would be for my first year.

Option 1: Sturm College of Law Denver University (Rank 68)
COA-$0
I have a 3 year, full ride offer and would be living at home.

Option 2: CU Boulder (Rank 43)
COA-$38,068

Option 3: WashU St. Louis (Rank 18)
COA-$46,452

Option 4: Vanderbilt (Rank 16)
COA-$59,024

What is your reason for not retaking? I know plenty of people who upped their score from the low 160's to the high 160's, and with say a 169 you could go to UVA or Penn.

1) Everyone tries to transfer after their first year. Do NOT attend a school unless you'd be ok graduating there. It will not be easier to be top of class at the lower ranked schools.

2) Vandy or WUSTL for under 60K is very reasonable. Do not even consider the other two. I'm also not sure those COA's are accurate, unless you have full rides to both or significant savings.

Edit: I didn't catch that COA was only for first year. Then hell no, retake is the best option. Taking an absolutely free ride at home wouldn't be the worst decision you could make, but I'm not sure it's a good one.

Retake! The easiest way to be at Penn as a 2L is to be at Penn as a 1L.

transferror wrote:1) Everyone tries to transfer after their first year. Do NOT attend a school unless you'd be ok graduating there. It will not be easier to be top of class at the lower ranked schools.

2) Vandy or WUSTL for under 60K is very reasonable. Do not even consider the other two. I'm also not sure those COA's are accurate, unless you have full rides to both or significant savings.

Coa is I think per yr

Op retake

Planning to transfer seems like a dangerous idea. If you're confident that you can be at the top of your class, why not throw some of that confidence toward rocking the LSAT. Based on your numbers and your wait list status at top schools, it seems like your softs are winning you favor. So a better score could probably get you in to a lot if places. If you don't have confidence that you could do better on the LSAT (because of test taking ability or something) you shouldn't bank on transferring and should just go to the best school where you're admitted.

OP, clarify the cost of attendance. If your total, 3 year debt for Vanderbilt or WUSTL is <60k, I think those are solid deals. If that's cost per year, those are definitely not solid. There be monsters.

Gotta retake, man. Don't assume you'll be at the top of your class. If you were so much smarter than your classmates, you'd be at a better school. There are going to be plenty of people at these schools who will be your intellectual peers and willing to work just as hard.

Post removed.

Thinking you can't improve on the LSAT but will crush 1L grade-wise is like, really, really dumb, IMO.

You likely won't make the grades to transfer. I know plenty of straight A ugrad students that struggled to get to median. All bets are off in law school, if you think you are going to dominate, chances are you won't. Think about it, only the top 10% typically get to transfer. That means roughly 90% of students don't have the chance. Almost everyone at the better law schools comes in with a hardworking mentality. If you are picking any of these schools with the intention of transferring, you will be disappointed this time next year.

rv8099a wrote:I also want to make sure that I can be top of my class to transfer, which I will have a better shot at in lower ranking schools.

You can never be sure of that. You should assume you will finish around median wherever you go, because that is the most likely outcome.

TheSpanishMain wrote:OP, clarify the cost of attendance. If your total, 3 year debt for Vanderbilt or WUSTL is <60k, I think those are solid deals. If that's cost per year, those are definitely not solid. There be monsters.

Pretty sure its per year, given their numbers and that they said

The COA would be for my first year.

You can't go to any of these schools right now.

But just for the sake of argument, being top 5-10% at WashU or Vandy would open up a lot more transfer options (probably HCC and down) than a similar place in the class at the other two.

0Ls who think they are just going to show up at a law school, dominate, then transfer to a T10 are hilarious.

Retake.

Retake or DU and forget about transferring, at least not to T10.

But what some poster said about everyone wanting to transfer is completely false. Prestige is a function of community, and the TLS community is prestige obsessed. Your chances of transferring from DU to Penn are atrocious but don't think everyone there will be like you, one foot out the door. People will be proud of their school and won't like you if you tell everyone you just plan on transferring. Since you wil be there for three years, thought I should say something.

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Retake or DU and forget about transferring, at least not to T10.

But what some poster said about everyone wanting to transfer is completely false. Prestige is a function of community, and the TLS community is prestige obsessed. Your chances of transferring from DU to Penn are atrocious but don't think everyone there will be like you, one foot out the door. People will be proud of their school and won't like you if you tell everyone you just plan on transferring. Since you wil be there for three years, thought I should say something.

By and large TLS is getting a job and limiting debt obsessed, not prestige obsessed. Stop it Randy.

No way OP. Two possible paths to a T10 school for you. The far easier path is studying and improving on the LSAT, and getting in directly. You can take as long as you need, take it as many times as you want, have the benefit of prep courses, tutors, TLS advice, etc. and can use practice tests to accurately gauge your progress and expectations Compare that to law school, where you have one single shot, arbitrary grading, no re-dos's and far less predictability. And even if you do well in law school, it won't be enough unless you are at the tippy top. And what exactly makes you think that it will be you on the top of the mountain after 1L year vs. everyone else?

Bottom line: You NEVER go to a school planning to transfer. The school you choose now will almost certainly be the one from which you will graduate. So if you aren't happy having a degree from that school, DO NOT ATTEND. If you are even thinking about transferring beforehand, then you aren't 100% satisfied with the choice, and unless you are, don't go.

BigZuck wrote:

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Retake or DU and forget about transferring, at least not to T10.

But what some poster said about everyone wanting to transfer is completely false. Prestige is a function of community, and the TLS community is prestige obsessed. Your chances of transferring from DU to Penn are atrocious but don't think everyone there will be like you, one foot out the door. People will be proud of their school and won't like you if you tell everyone you just plan on transferring. Since you wil be there for three years, thought I should say something.

By and large TLS is getting a job and limiting debt obsessed, not prestige obsessed. Stop it Randy.

See the HLS vs. Chicago thread, where only 37% of the respondents suggested the OP take Harvard over Chicago/Duke with $$. And that's Harvard, which probably has the most lay prestige in the world.

Why do people even think about this?

aboutmydaylight wrote:Why do people even think about this?

Special snowflake syndrome.

riverwater wrote:Retake! The easiest way to be at Penn as a 2L is to be at Penn as a 1L.

OP, a lot of good advice in this thread. I rarely say this, but if it doesn't work out you were seriously on notice of the risks. Believe what these posters are telling you.

Retake. Even if you focused on just one section (say, killing LG and making sure you're consistent every time you test), your score is going to jump a lot, and that will open up so many more options for you. I don't know why you're fixated on Penn or UVA (you didn't list your post grad plans, et .), but even a 167/168 should open up Cornell and GULC for you.

Also, how are you financing? You didn't specify how much debt you'd accumulate or if you have $x saved for school. Vandy for 180k is still a little much though, even if you have funds to pay for it.