Top Law Schools

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Have you ever considered, you know visiting...?

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With no texas ties and (presumably) no family money, the conditions

BornAgain99 wrote: Want big law

and

BornAgain99 wrote: Don't want soul crushing debt.

aren't particularly predisposed to either of these options.

Got anything in-between, like Cornell or NU w/ $90K or Penn @ $60K or something?

jbagelboy wrote:With no texas ties and (presumably) no family money, the conditions

BornAgain99 wrote: Want big law

and

BornAgain99 wrote: Don't want soul crushing debt.

aren't particularly predisposed to either of these options.

Got anything in-between, like Cornell or NU w/ $90K or Penn @ $60K or something?

As of now, no.

Columbia at sticker right now is projected at over $300,000. Would probably come a little under that with SA money, but optimistically, $275K debt at graduation. That's just an appallingly large amount of money. I can't in good conscience advise it.

Attending UT with no ties to Texas just doesn't sound like a good game plan for large firm work, from everything I've heard. About 40% of the class can reliably hope for a large firm job, and you're competing with tons of Texas or southwest locals with family or undergrad connections at firms and far more networking opportunities who are all aiming for that same cadre. Overall it's a less risky decision than sticker debt, but you could be miserable and lonely and ultimately unsuccessful in your chosen career track (worst case scenario). Or you could pull top quarter grades, network well to make up for ties, land a good SA and come out in a great spot. It's just not the most likely outcome.

This might come down to, what kind of risk are you less averse to? Risk (actually, near certainty) of massive debt but near certain job, or substantial risk of missing the job you want, but being in a relatively safe financial position? I know these are both "great" options on their face, and I want to congratulate you because you still must have done well to get to this point, but if I can be entirely honest neither seems particularly appealing right now just because of the nature of the legal economy and the real pain of student loan debt.

jbagelboy wrote:Columbia at sticker right now is projected at over $300,000. Would probably come a little under that with SA money, but optimistically, $275K debt at graduation. That's just an appallingly large amount of money. I can't in good conscience advise it.

Attending UT with no ties to Texas just doesn't sound like a good game plan for large firm work, from everything I've heard. About 40% of the class can reliably hope for a large firm job, and you're competing with tons of Texas or southwest locals with family or undergrad connections at firms and far more networking opportunities who are all aiming for that same cadre. Overall it's a less risky decision than sticker debt, but you could be miserable and lonely and ultimately unsuccessful in your chosen career track (worst case scenario). Or you could pull top quarter grades, network well to make up for ties, land a good SA and come out in a great spot. It's just not the most likely outcome.

This might come down to, what kind of risk are you less averse to? Risk (actually, near certainty) of massive debt but near certain job, or substantial risk of missing the job you want, but being in a relatively safe financial position? I know these are both "great" options on their face, and I want to congratulate you because you still must have done well to get to this point, but if I can be entirely honest neither seems particularly appealing right now just because of the nature of the legal economy and the real pain of student loan debt.

Thank you for the enlightening reality check, jbagelboy. If you were in my position, what would you do?

Did you apply to all of the T14? Hard to believe you don't have Duke, Cornell or UVA with 90k or something similar.

californiauser wrote:Did you apply to all of the T14? Hard to believe you don't have Duke, Cornell or UVA with 90k or something similar.

I am forever in purgatory at the gates of the schools you mentioned

If I was looking at $300 k and my negotiation strategies failed at Columbia, then damnit, I would either 1) retake or 2) start packing for UT-Austin.

$300k is a lot of money. But if you want big-law Columbia's approx 80% placement is a pretty damn safe bet. I'd go Columbia. A full ride is nice and all but you may be left working Texas mid-law wondering 'what if' in a few years. Not to mention your law school experience will be less stressful at Columbia considering you essentially just have to avoid not graduating last in your class to reach your goal.

Good luck either way.

But also Big Law in Dallas pays $160k. Not sure what mid-law pays, but if Big Law pays $160k, I'm pretty sure it's decent. Texas has a killer cost of living.

sparty99 wrote:But also Big Law in Dallas pays $160k. Not sure what mid-law pays, but if Big Law pays $160k, I'm pretty sure it's decent. Texas has a killer cost of living.

I agree and don't think that'd be a bad deal, personally. But OP says he wants big law and doesn't really seem to want to live in Texas. So if he was living in Texas AND not doing big law, he may not be too thrilled(to put it kindly) with his outcome.

BornAgain99 wrote:

californiauser wrote:Did you apply to all of the T14? Hard to believe you don't have Duke, Cornell or UVA with 90k or something similar.

I am forever in purgatory at the gates of the schools you mentioned

Are you on a bunch of waitlists, or are you waiting on decisions?

Brettanomyces wrote:

BornAgain99 wrote:

californiauser wrote:Did you apply to all of the T14? Hard to believe you don't have Duke, Cornell or UVA with 90k or something similar.

I am forever in purgatory at the gates of the schools you mentioned

Are you on a bunch of waitlists, or are you waiting on decisions?

waitlists

there's a chance you're getting YP'ed. Write some heartfelt LOCI's and you might see some money coming your way.

I think you should hope you get off a waitlist with some money, because your goals don't match up well with UT, and 300 grand is a lot of money.

Still, if I HAD to choose, I'd probably go to Columbia if I didn't want to work in Texas.

bowser wrote:there's a chance you're getting YP'ed. Write some heartfelt LOCI's and you might see some money coming your way.

Not sure what your numbers are, OP. But this is good advice. There must be some middle ground here.

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For now I'd deposit at both and keep riding those waitlists hard to get the cost down a lot lower than 300k somewhere in the T-14. I know of other people who late in the cycle were only in at CLS + another non-T14 and as time went on things started to improve.

If you're a reverse splitter or URM you should start studying for a June retake. Nothing lowers cost like a higher LSAT score.

Tiago Splitter wrote:For now I'd deposit at both and keep riding those waitlists hard to get the cost down a lot lower than 300k somewhere in the T-14. I know of other people who late in the cycle were only in at CLS + another non-T14 and as time went on things started to improve.

If you're a reverse splitter or URM you should start studying for a June retake. Nothing lowers cost like a higher LSAT score.

Not to change the direction of the thread, but my understanding is that once you put down a deposit you must withdraw from every other school you've been accepted to, though you are allowed to continue riding waitlists.

Given this, how could OP deposit at two schools?

Nucky wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:For now I'd deposit at both and keep riding those waitlists hard to get the cost down a lot lower than 300k somewhere in the T-14. I know of other people who late in the cycle were only in at CLS + another non-T14 and as time went on things started to improve.

If you're a reverse splitter or URM you should start studying for a June retake. Nothing lowers cost like a higher LSAT score.

Not to change the direction of the thread, but my understanding is that once you put down a deposit you must withdraw from every other school you've been accepted to, though you are allowed to continue riding waitlists.

Given this, how could OP deposit at two schools?

If OP is concerned about this they should check the language of the deposit forms or ask the schools directly, but people double and triple deposit all the time.

when did you apply?
If you applied after January, then I would consider sitting out this cycle and telling UT Austin that your reasons for doing so is because you are aware of the lack of legal jobs for graduating law students and want some more time to make sure that investing 3 years to work for getting ( hopefully) a better career than the one you are currently in is the right decision for you ( or something along those lines).

Then use this time to further research and write additional essays for all schools ( and do some more research at UT Austin so that you can write a strong LOCI to put in your application for the 2014-2015 cycle).

Even if you did apply early , since your goals are big law in the NE without massive soul crushing debt, I would consider this route. Because as you are likely aware, the average tenure of a big law attorney is 5 years or less.

Nucky wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:Not to change the direction of the thread, but my understanding is that once you put down a deposit you must withdraw from every other school you've been accepted to, though you are allowed to continue riding waitlists.

Given this, how could OP deposit at two schools?

Not true for most schools, from my understanding. There are exceptions, like USC, where they insist you withdraw your other acceptances in order to keep your scholarship, but most schools do not do this. From all I've been told, you have the most leverage for negotiations once the first deposits are in, provided you've deposited at multiple schools (also provided those schools make sense to be leveraged against one another). The Texas deposit is only $200 anyway, and it's due by Monday, so i'd decide sooner than later.