Top Law Schools

Debt:
Cornell: 163k
BC: 79k

Each is calculated using Georgetown's calculator. I've been told by friends in the area and a BC student that BC's numbers are overestimates. Not sure about Cornell's. They include a little help for 1L.

I'm from New England.

I rank goals as follows: Boston biglaw > NYC biglaw = New England PI or small firm. I frankly don't know how to rank the latter two. If NYC biglaw, I'd want to lateral to Boston or elsewhere (Los Angeles maybe because weather) as soon as it becomes plausible. I see myself miserable at a NYC firm, whereas working for a modest salary with lower debt in the New England region sounds a lot better. Granted, if a lateral from NYC to Boston sounds reasonable to do after a couple years of NYC biglaw, then maybe that makes Cornell a justifiable choice.

Numbers
High 160s and a lower retake with 3.9 GPA.

How many times you have taken the LSAT
Twice. Studied 8 months combined. 149 diag.

Thanks everybody!

As someone who lives in St. Louis, I can assure you that room and board is exaggerated so long as you don't plan on living in one of the more expensive, "nicer" neighborhoods

Also, I think BU seems to fit your goals most, if and ONLY IF, you can get them to at least match or get close to WUSTL's offer. I don't believe 100k+ in debt is a good idea for any non-T14

Retake seems like the right answer with your GPA. Take the June LSAT and with a 169 you at/above both medians at a number of T-14's. Hit 170 and you're really competitive at most of them. Then polish your apps in the late summer and apply right away in September. Or consider ED'ing Northwestern if you are really debt averse and right at 170.

gta wrote:Retake seems like the right answer with your GPA. Take the June LSAT and with a 169 you at/above both medians at a number of T-14's. Hit 170 and you're really competitive at most of them. Then polish your apps in the late summer and apply right away in September. Or consider ED'ing Northwestern if you are really debt averse and right at 170.

Definitely don't ED NU if you get 170. That just seems ridiculous since with a 170 and the gpa combo, he would be netting $$$$ anyway.

The Dark Shepard wrote:As someone who lives in St. Louis, I can assure you that room and board is exaggerated so long as you don't plan on living in one of the more expensive, "nicer" neighborhoods

Also, I think BU seems to fit your goals most, if and ONLY IF, you can get them to at least match or get close to WUSTL's offer. I don't believe 100k+ in debt is a good idea for any non-T14

Why not BC? I'd go there if choosing from only them.

Generally, I agree that retaking is a good thing. The 3 point drop to 165 was discouraging, but maybe I simply burnt out. Again, I emphasize that I support a t14 full offer more than I do HYS at minimal aid. I have had academic aspirations before, and so Yale would be amazing, but the chances of being accepted there are barely non-zero, I believe.

To be candid, if BC matches WUSTL, I think I'd go there. I know it's the objectively lazy choice. Or if Cornell increases theirs a little, 155k is a lot better than almost 170k.

if your goal is boston biglaw, take bc with all that money. given that you took all that money, if you don't make biglaw, it won't be the worst thing. furthermore, if you don't make biglaw, the BC boston law market is so strong that you might be able to network your way into a decently high paying job as a 3 or 4 or 5L anyway, if you play your cards right.

eff USNWR--doesn't matter where they place WUSTL, or even that WUSTL gave you more money. BC is the play for YOUR goals. below the top 6/7/8/9/whatever, regionality trumps almost everything.

Bajam wrote:

gta wrote:Retake seems like the right answer with your GPA. Take the June LSAT and with a 169 you at/above both medians at a number of T-14's. Hit 170 and you're really competitive at most of them. Then polish your apps in the late summer and apply right away in September. Or consider ED'ing Northwestern if you are really debt averse and right at 170.

Definitely don't ED NU if you get 170. That just seems ridiculous since with a 170 and the gpa combo, he would be netting $$$$ anyway.

NU ED = full ride.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Bajam wrote:

gta wrote:Retake seems like the right answer with your GPA. Take the June LSAT and with a 169 you at/above both medians at a number of T-14's. Hit 170 and you're really competitive at most of them. Then polish your apps in the late summer and apply right away in September. Or consider ED'ing Northwestern if you are really debt averse and right at 170.

Definitely don't ED NU if you get 170. That just seems ridiculous since with a 170 and the gpa combo, he would be netting $$$$ anyway.

NU ED = full ride.

Yea I know its a full ride, but you realize there are better schools that could give the same amount/more money than NU right?

Bajam wrote:Yea I know its a full ride, but you realize there are better schools that could give the same amount/more money than NU right?

That's something of a gamble if OP is debt-averse. It's not likely that a better school would offer a 170/3.9 a full-ride. Lots of money, sure, but NU ED is the best bet to get a T-14 for free, if OP's retake score = 170.

This is well off into the future anyway though - at this point OP should retake in June and plan to apply again (to wherever) in September.

gta wrote:

Bajam wrote:Yea I know its a full ride, but you realize there are better schools that could give the same amount/more money than NU right?

That's something of a gamble if OP is debt-averse. It's not likely that a better school would offer a 170/3.9 a full-ride. Lots of money, sure, but NU ED is the best bet to get a T-14 for free, if OP's retake score = 170.

This is well off into the future anyway though - at this point OP should retake in June and plan to apply again (to wherever) in September.

True true. I think retaking even if only for a 1 point increase is TCR.

I'd go UVA or WUSTL. Unless you have a good job, I would not sit out the cycle to retake and try again next year. You have good options, and there's no guarantee that you'll see a bump in your LSAT.

I think retake is way better than your other options (dat beautiful GPA). But if I were picking one of these I might roll with Cornell.

I think I would need to know more about how BU/BC place in Boston vs Cornell however.

KC: What's your justification for UVA? I don't think it's a good choice considering they're peers with Cornell for what I'm after (northeast biglaw).

Zuck: TLS Cornell students have said Boston biglaw is certainly attainable with ties. I think somebody said at median it is. If there are Cornell students willing to give input here, that'd be awesome. The biggest drawback with Cornell for me is that I'm not a big fan of NYC. Granted, to pay off loans I'm all for it. When I was looking through the NALP directory, I recognized that Cornell has Boston firms come to OCI but really it's the Boston job fair Cornell has that appears instrumental.

BC works (preferably negotiate for cheaper) but retake for H or more full rides if at all possible.

With your gpa, and given that you have a retake remaining, it would be extremely foolish not to retake. Worst case scenario is that you don't improve your 168 and you still wind up with these or similar offers because you would, presumably, have gotten some work experience and that makes you a that much better candidate.

retaking23 wrote:With your gpa, and given that you have a retake remaining, it would be extremely foolish not to retake. Worst case scenario is that you don't improve your 168 and you still wind up with these or similar offers because you would, presumably, have gotten some work experience and that makes you a that much better candidate.

This.
I voted UVA, but I would retake knowing you didn't leave any questions unanswered and play the coulda/shoulda/woulda game 3 years down the road.

I'm surprised UVA is winning.

I know I ought to just retake.

Otunga wrote:I'm surprised UVA is winning.

I know I ought to just retake.

It's a hard pill to swallow, but ultimately the best choice.

Debt (COA)
WUSTL: 76k (83k)
Cornell: 169k (177k)
BU: 109k (117k)
UVA: 184k (191k)
BC: 110k (118k)

Knock out WUSTL - although its cheap it will do absolutely nothing for you in Boston. I would focus on getting the other options cheaper. As is, I would vote Cornell but that is a lot of debt. Cornell and UVA are probably roughly equal for getting into Boston, with UVA having a pure number of attorneys edge. With your Boston UG you shouldn't have a problem from either. If you can pull 76k at BU/BC then I would take that, but I think an extra 60k is worth it for Cornell over BU/BC. Hell, I would have done that and I'm a BU grad.

Haggle BC with the WUSTL offer and post again.

Source: bigfirm attorney in Boston.

Otunga wrote:I'm surprised UVA is winning.

I know I ought to just retake.

5, 10, 20 years from now, I can't see you regretting the decision to retake. Especially if you dedicate the time to preparation and land a great score.

gta wrote: 5, 10, 20 years from now, I can't see you regretting the decision to retake. Especially if you dedicate the time to preparation and land a great score.

+1000

The things I would do for a June or even October retake

Was going to reply to your PM but i'll post here for posterity's sake..

You have Boston/New England ties. You could theoretically go to Boston BigLaw from all of those schools, with the caveat that you'll need higher grades from some than you will from others. The Boston market is saturated with BC/BU grads. But that's not necessarily bad, it means more alumni in the area and it's indicative of regional brand power.

I hesitate to advocate too hard for BC/BU because you already have ties. And if for some reason you miss the Boston BigLaw boat from those schools, your only "fallback" would be NYC. The majority of your classmates will be gunning for Boston firms. So there's a trade-off. Yes BU/BC will give you more points of entry into the local market, but there are many more peers competing with you for those spots. That said, it sounds like you're 100% sure that you want Boston and want to be in the area. If that's the case, then maybe it's better to maximize your chances and just try your luck in the cage.

I'm top 10% at WUSTL and I'm from Boston and have already had some success with Boston firms (AmLaw 200 for now). Despite that, I can't in good conscious recommend that you come here. You have better offers, so dispose of WUSTL as an option and just use it as a bargaining chip.

Anyway, here are my recommendations (in order):

1. Retake. A 3.9 GPA is a fucking blessing (congrats on that btw). I understand that taking a year off to reapply/retake can seem daunting. But I did it, and it's paid off. Don't worry about the drop in your score, shit happens to everyone. Just go hard over the summer with your prep. You very well could put HYS on the table and CCNMVP with $$$. The prestige circle-jerk alone would probably be sufficient motivation for me to take a year off and retake.

If for whatever reason you decide not to retake, then:
(This is ASSUMING that your offers don't change. If BC offers you significantly more money, then I would go to BC)

2. Cornell. The university and the law school are both extremely well-regarded in Boston. Lots of alumni in the area. Yes the debt is on the higher end, but it's a T14 with historically reliable/good placement. You're not borrowing the debt for a TTT, you're getting a Cornell J.D. It might suck for a few years but the debt will eventually be paid off if you can handle the grind and are judicious with your payment plans/lifestyle. Is Cornell worth an extra 59K? Hell yes. You'd already borrowing over six figures for BC, an additional 59k for Cornell (in my opinion) is worth it. Cornell will also put more markets on the table in case you ever change your mind about Boston for some reason. If you miss Boston at BC then it'll be difficult to recover.

3. BC. (Remember if BC gives you significantly more, then go to BC)

I'm pretty sure both Cornell and BC will give you an increase. You're way above their 75th GPA and your LSAT is right in their target zone. If you're patient then you should be able to leverage more money out of both schools.

Cornell is actually an interesting option here.

Re-take in June, though - you have nothing to lose.

Edited the thread and poll. The numbers consider the increased offer BC has made. Cornell may or may not increase. If they do, suppose it's a modest increase, making it 150-155k debt.

Given the money and the fact that BC is one of the better schools you can attend for Boston biglaw, I would take the money and give it a shot. Bottom of the class at any of the three aren't getting you into Boston biglaw, but from UVA or Cornell, you aren't a shoe in even in the top half.