Top Law Schools

Hello! Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'm currently choosing between University of San Francisco, and University of the Pacific, McGeorge, waitlisted at UC Hastings and USD.

Scholarship Offers
USF: $27K, renewable for $20K with 3.2 GPA
McGeorge: $20K ($14K merit, plus $6K book stipend) renewable if in top 50%

Goals
1) To work in a large legal market, like SF
2) Deciding between working in Children's Law (USF has a clinic for this) and Elder/Health Law (McGeorge has a clinic for this)
3) To lower financial burden, either in loans of COL (I live in the east bay, roughly 30-40 minutes away so commuting MAY be an option for USF, though living in SF would be more time-efficient)

Thanks for any help in advance! And good luck with your future endeavors, whatever they may be

*waves hand*

You don't want to go to law school. You want to go home and rethink your life

If you fill this out: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299 you'll get some better advice!

KatyMarie wrote:If you fill this out: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299 you'll get some better advice!

It doesn't matter in this situation. Going to these schools, even for free, is likely a bad choice.

Please do yourself a favor and look at this website: http://www.lstscorereports.com/

You should retake the LSAT to shoot for a T14 school if you want SF (or UCLA/USC). You likely won't get into Boalt/SLS since based on your offers from these schools your GPA is not amazing. However, going to a T14/UCLA/USC would be your best bet for SF. If you could go to Davis or Hastings for free then maybe..

RETAKE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Neither.

A Barista has better career opportunities.

Get a paralegal certificate or something. Employment scores in the low 30 percentile. NO. NO. NO. If you were from Sac, maybe mcgeorge, but you want to end up in SF. NO.

Given your goals, anything below significant $$$ at Davis/Hastings is a no go.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... isco/2013/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/pacific/2013/

ETA: Nvm, I wouldn't touch HasTTTTings with a 10 foot pole:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/2013/

Because you probably won't listen to the other people above, USF is offering more money and is closer to home.
If you don't make that 3.2, though, you may want to reconsider.

While I appreciate that everyone's advice has legitimate statistics to back them up and comes from solid reasoning, I'd really just like the pros of one school over the other. This is something I really want to pursue, so with all due respect, telling me to do something else doesn't really help my situation.

Thanks Dingo Starr for answering with a choice between the two

xtinesung wrote:While I appreciate that everyone's advice has legitimate statistics to back them up and comes from solid reasoning, I'd really just like the pros of one school over the other. This is something I really want to pursue, so with all due respect, telling me to do something else doesn't really help my situation.

Thanks Dingo Starr for answering with a choice between the two

How I imagined OP when reading this... http://www.getbullish.com/wp-content/up ... n-sand.jpg


Also, the above posts have tried to help your situation and answer your question. Both of the schools you mentioned have employment scores in the 30s.

Really wanting to pursue a career in law is fine, but neither of these schools are the best route. Flip a coin right now. You have a better chance of picking which side will land face up than obtaining a legal job from one of these schools. Are those the kind of odds you want to take when investing serious money AND time?

No one called flame on this? I just find this hard to believe that someone would choose between these two and not even consider retaking.

toshiroh wrote:No one called flame on this? I just find this hard to believe that someone would choose between these two and not even consider retaking.

I've retaken already

xtinesung wrote:Hello! Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'm currently choosing between University of San Francisco, and University of the Pacific, McGeorge, waitlisted at UC Hastings and USD.

Scholarship Offers
USF: $27K, renewable for $20K with 3.2 GPA
McGeorge: $20K ($14K merit, plus $6K book stipend) renewable if in top 50%

Goals
1) To work in a large legal market, like SF
2) Deciding between working in Children's Law (USF has a clinic for this) and Elder/Health Law (McGeorge has a clinic for this)
3) To lower financial burden, either in loans of COL (I live in the east bay, roughly 30-40 minutes away so commuting MAY be an option for USF, though living in SF would be more time-efficient)

Thanks for any help in advance! And good luck with your future endeavors, whatever they may be

If you want to work in SF, and these schools are your absolute only options, deposit at USF and hold on for Hastings. I don't see how USD and McG will get you in the SF job market. Just make sure you know the job numbers (lawschooltransparency) you're getting into by going to these schools, and the intense higher-ranked competition you're up against.

;

You realize that the SF market is one of the toughest to crack...

do not pass go, do not collect $200

You would be much better off working a minimum wage job while studying to retake the LSAT than going to one of these schools in the fall. Not only would you need to graduate n the top 10% (and probably higher) to have a chance at getting a legal job, but you would also need to be very very lucky as well. You're basically asking everyone which type of lottery ticket you should buy since landing a legal job in SF from one of those schools is about as tough as hitting the jackpot. SF is saturated with Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA and USC grads, and plenty of them who want to get jobs in SF don't end up landing them. Don't financially ruin yourself and any chance you have of becoming a lawyer just because you're anxious to start law school.

This past year has been about working and studying for the LSAT. I've already taken it 3 times, and honestly I just don't see much improvement happening besides breaking 160, current score is 157.

After reading a lot of the responses, which are very helpful and I understand come from a place of experience, I realize I do need to tailor either my goals or improve myself as a law candidate. But for now, with my current numbers and offers, if I decide to just try to get a job as an attorney ANYWHERE, which of the two seem less detrimental? (To put it in a not so controversial way)

xtinesung wrote:This past year has been about working and studying for the LSAT. I've already taken it 3 times, and honestly I just don't see much improvement happening besides breaking 160, current score is 157.

After reading a lot of the responses, which are very helpful and I understand come from a place of experience, I realize I do need to tailor either my goals or improve myself as a law candidate. But for now, with my current numbers and offers, if I decide to just try to get a job as an attorney ANYWHERE, which of the two seem less detrimental? (To put it in a not so controversial way)

They are both terrible choices and you would be making a major mistake to go to either. If you're going to ruin your life financially might as well go to USF. Enjoy three years in SF and maybe with some hustle and luck you might be the one out of three that actually get a full time legal job

The less detrimental option would be to get a job at a law firm...just not as an attorney.

It doesn't make sense to attend those schools with that amount of debt. You would come out more ahead volunteering at a non profit that deals with your goals then choosing those law schools.

xtinesung wrote:This past year has been about working and studying for the LSAT. I've already taken it 3 times, and honestly I just don't see much improvement happening besides breaking 160, current score is 157.

Breaking 160 would make a difference. Every point matters.

I think you are potentially wasting your life and talents by going to law school with your current score. But, if you're going to go anyways, you might want to consider leaving the state of CA and its terrible legal job market. You might do better somewhere else. Especially if you have any ties to any other state. If that's the plan then I would recommend moving back to the state where you want to go and residing their long enough to get in state tuition. If you would live and work in a state like Montana or Wyoming you'd get pretty low in state tuition and a better chance at a job.

xtinesung wrote:This past year has been about working and studying for the LSAT. I've already taken it 3 times, and honestly I just don't see much improvement happening besides breaking 160, current score is 157.

After reading a lot of the responses, which are very helpful and I understand come from a place of experience, I realize I do need to tailor either my goals or improve myself as a law candidate. But for now, with my current numbers and offers, if I decide to just try to get a job as an attorney ANYWHERE, which of the two seem less detrimental? (To put it in a not so controversial way)

I guess McGeorge if you were cool with small law in Sacramento and had literally 0 debt. Like no tuition, no CoL, nothing.

SF is just a really tough market. It's highly desired by a lot of T14/USC/UCLA grads, and even a lot of them don't get it. If you won't/can't improve your LSAT score, you either need to revise your goals or just not go to law school.

Look, I think you know that even if you're going to be in the 1/3 of these schools that gets a job, it's not going to pay very well (think 45-60K) relative the that amount of debt. Getting those extra two or three points to jump over the 75th percentile at either school is huge- you cannot have any major debt coming out. Right now you are looking at like 170K coming out of these schools. That debt will ruin your life.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... osts/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... osts/2013/

But even if you did, those stips are bad news bears. Clinics are not going to help you get a job, what you need to do is immediately start throwing out your resume to firms and nonprofits trying to get a job and basically spend three years of law school hustling for work. That's going to be more difficult if you also have to spend a lot of time making sure you don't lose the scholly.

I want you to think very seriously about not going to law school. I don't know why you are hellbent on this career path, but it's not like TV or the movies, it's not an easy way into a middle-class or upper-middle class life, and there are real, serious increases in depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and mental illness that begin in law school and carry over into practice. I'm not saying there are no successful people in the law, but it's not a cure-all for just being unable to get a good job out of college, and there are other ways to help people than becoming just another lawyer.

timbs4339 wrote: I want you to think very seriously about not going to law school. I don't know why you are hellbent on this career path, but it's not like TV or the movies, it's not an easy way into a middle-class or upper-middle class life, and there are real, serious increases in depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and mental illness that begin in law school and carry over into practice. I'm not saying there are no successful people in the law, but it's not a cure-all for just being unable to get a good job out of college, and there are other ways to help people than becoming just another lawyer.

Every case is different, I know ppl go to law school for different reasons, some superficial. But for me I've been working at a law office for years. And I've loved every minute of it: all of the legal research that I've done, every second I've been there learning about the law, it's all made me want to be a lawyer even more. Now I realize that's a far from knowing what it's like to be an actual attorney, but I think I've had a small taste of it. I've thought about other career paths, nursing, teaching and have tried them too. Trust me, law is not the first career choice I would've made (long hours, debt, stress and that's after you get lucky enough to find a job, I'd say it's harder than most any field out there). But after combing though other career possibilities, it was the only thing I really seemed to love. Sorry for getting all corny, but after reading the advice of not going to law school, it seemed like I should let you guys know why I am so determined to go. However, I will be considering other options as well, maybe just being a paralegal for a while, then applying again. Thank you all for the advice

xtinesung wrote:

timbs4339 wrote: I want you to think very seriously about not going to law school. I don't know why you are hellbent on this career path, but it's not like TV or the movies, it's not an easy way into a middle-class or upper-middle class life, and there are real, serious increases in depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and mental illness that begin in law school and carry over into practice. I'm not saying there are no successful people in the law, but it's not a cure-all for just being unable to get a good job out of college, and there are other ways to help people than becoming just another lawyer.

Every case is different, I know ppl go to law school for different reasons, some superficial. But for me I've been working at a law office for years. And I've loved every minute of it: all of the legal research that I've done, every second I've been there learning about the law, it's all made me want to be a lawyer even more. Now I realize that's a far from knowing what it's like to be an actual attorney, but I think I've had a small taste of it. I've thought about other career paths, nursing, teaching and have tried them too. Trust me, law is not the first career choice I would've made (long hours, debt, stress and that's after you get lucky enough to find a job, I'd say it's harder than most any field out there). But after combing though other career possibilities, it was the only thing I really seemed to love. Sorry for getting all corny, but after reading the advice of not going to law school, it seemed like I should let you guys know why I am so determined to go. However, I will be considering other options as well, maybe just being a paralegal for a while, then applying again. Thank you all for the advice

Don't just be a paralegal for awhile. If you really want to be a lawyer please retake. Getting into the 160s is the only way that you'll have a better shot of actually becoming a lawyer

It's good that you've had some exposure to law and you enjoy it. If you really want to be a lawyer, though, you need to retake after a period of long, intense study and drill. This isn't just about prestige whoring or elitism. This is about giving yourself the best possible chance of actually achieving your goal. Look at how many people from USF and McGeorge never actually become lawyers. Not "don't get a prestigious, high paying job" but never become lawyers at all in any capacity. Good, bad, or indifferent, the LSAT is the single biggest factor in whether you end up being a lawyer or a Starbucks barista with a JD. Don't let your impatience push you into making a career ruining mistake.