Mich vs. ASU Forum

[pdx1990]

On paper this is the debate between a regional and a T14; however, before commenting it is important to know I want to practice Indian law (i.e. Native American). ASU certainly doesn't have anything like the prestige of Michigan but they have a well-regarded Indian law program and after visiting Ann Arbor I don't know if they even know what an indigenous person is.

Mich COA - $125K
ASU COA - $0K

I've never been to Arizona but am a west coast guy and will visit the school later this month. After visiting Mich I'm a bit skeptical about living in Ann Arbor but understand that a huge plus is I could anywhere after.

Personal goals: Like I said Indian law. A clerkship would be a great opportunity too. I want to be clear that big law does not interest me one bit.

[BigZuck]

Indian law is a thing? Like, you can easily get a job in that field as a freshly minted grad from ASU?

If so, then do that.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yes, Indian law is a thing, though it probably depends a little on where you are (it's more of a thing in regions with lots of Indian nations).

OP, where do you want to practice (and are you Native and do you have connections to tribes)? My sense is that you will have more opportunities to do Indian law stuff during law school at ASU than at Michigan, and that graduating without debt is always a good deal. (Depending on what you want to do, of course - there are firm jobs in Indian law, though not all are biglaw or going to pay like biglaw - which you probably know already.) If you do already have quite a lot of connections in the field, though, the benefit of Michigan would be getting more conventional prestige on your resume. Whether that's worth it again depends on what you want to do in Indian law - it's entirely unclear to me that it would be worth $125K in debt over no debt, but it's hard to say on the info we have so far.

[lzack]

I'm a student at ASU (0L undergrad, though I've taken courses through the law school) and I would pick ASU in a heartbeat in your situation. I think the specific coursework, faculty, and internship/summer opportunities you'd have for Indian law at ASU will outstrip any T-14 benefits of Michigan.

If you do pick ASU, you should be prepared to quite probably live in Arizona. That said, for what you want to do, Arizona is an ideal place to live and work.

For Indian law, I'd pick ASU even if all the finances were equal. The full ride is icing on the cake!

[BigZuck]

For Indian law, I'd pick ASU even if all the finances were equal.

That's nuts

[aboutmydaylight]

I don't know anything about Indian law but Mich is clearly worth 125K more than ASU assuming your target niche market plan doesn't pan out. I guess what I'm saying is, how realistic is you actually end up doing what you want to do?

[rebexness]

Your actual COA at ASU is ZERO?
Is this with some kind of military benefit?

IMO I wouldn't count on NA Law unless you have tribal standing.

[donewithannarbor]

What is the extent of this "program" at ASU? Do they have a clinic? Or just extensive coursework? Perhaps some prominent professors in the field (that would help)?

Looks like Michigan offers a course (you'll have to make sure it is routinely offered). https://www.law.umich.edu/currentstuden ... eId=030078

If ASU only offers multiple courses, I see no reason why you'd be worse off taking Michigan's course and doing independent research and writing a journal note on your topic (and I know that Michigan has departments in other schools within the University that focus on NA generally, offering opportunities to potentially collaborate)...while working towards a better degree.

My law school offered one course in the topic I was most interested in; I took it, and I wrote my own papers and did my own research. More would have been nice, but not exactly necessary. To become a good attorney, whether practicing NA Law or something else, you're going to have to fill out your semesters with traditional courses like corporations, evidence, admin law, etc. You will find that there is only so much time for interest-based elective course work. You also need to closely consider whether you want to work in this field and how easy getting such employment will be in the markets opened up by ASU. You, like many who come into law school with specific interests, may find yourself wanting to be in more of a generalist environment post-grad, so that you can obtain certain translatable skills. The quality of your degree needs to come first. If you are generally pleased with what ASU will offer you, then go for it.

Ps why so skeptical of living in Michigan and not Arizona (home of Sheriff Joe Arapaio and dust storms)?

[A. Nony Mouse]

What is the extent of this "program" at ASU? Do they have a clinic? Or just extensive coursework? Perhaps some prominent professors in the field (that would help)?

https://www.law.asu.edu/ILP/TheIndianLegalProgram/ILPHome.aspx

I know people are dismissive of specialty programs (generally with good reason), and I don't think it's necessary to do a formal program to get a job in Indian law, but if you know you want to put your eggs in one basket, the ASU program is a very good one. (Whether doing such a program is worth it probably depends on things like the OP's experience and connections in Indian country.) I'm not saying ASU is the hands-down choice or anything - just that given that it's free, the Indian law program is a point in its favor. But I could still see an argument for Michigan.

[pixy1900]

Probably a bit late for this, but the University of Washington seems to have a good NA law program (https://www.law.washington.edu/indianlaw/) including a clinic where UW students serve as public defenders in a tribal court http://www.law.washington.edu/Clinics/Tribal/

[donewithannarbor]

The ILC program, linked by ANonyMouse, looks excellent. If that's what you REALLY want to do, then ASU looks best for you. Consider my above comments anyway as part of your deliberation.