Top Law Schools

Hey! I would appreciate if the current students and graduates on this forum could give me their thoughts about my choices. I'm patent bar eligible - B.S. Chemical Engineering from a top 20 school, although with some pretty low undergrad engineering grades. I don't have much of a geographic preference, although I want to be in a metropolitan city.

GW Law - full tuition

Emory Law - $80k for all 3 years

SMU Dedman - about $100k

Attending GW at sticker would be a really bad financial move

Yeah I thought so too. But GW has a huge alumni base in IP and they seem to do very well at placing their students with engineering backgrounds into IP firms.

undecided101 wrote:Yeah I thought so too. But GW has a huge alumni base in IP and they seem to do very well at placing their students with engineering backgrounds into IP firms.

You're not understanding the part where you have to pay back 300k, where, even in the best possible scenario, you don't even break even on your loans until 2023. And that's asking that a lot of things go your way (getting IP biglaw, avoiding stealth layoffs for 4-5 years, not committing suicide after working your third 70-hour week in a row)

Moved to appropriate forum.

twenty wrote:

undecided101 wrote:Yeah I thought so too. But GW has a huge alumni base in IP and they seem to do very well at placing their students with engineering backgrounds into IP firms.

You're not understanding the part where you have to pay back 300k, where, even in the best possible scenario, you don't even break even on your loans until 2023. And that's asking that a lot of things go your way (getting IP biglaw, avoiding stealth layoffs for 4-5 years, not committing suicide after working your third 70-hour week in a row)

Twenty -

Thanks for your response. You bring up a good point, that the high cost of GW makes it a risky financial decision. However, your points are exaggerated and/or not applicable in my situation.

- The sticker price for a GW law degree is approximately $210k (not $300k), and my parents will be giving me an interest-free loan. 52,000*3 (tuition) + 1,500*3 (books) + 1,300*9*3 (rent with a roommate in DC) + 4,000*3 (pocket expenses if I live frugally) = approximately $210k

- As an IP practitioner, I would not necessarily have to work in BigLaw to make a reasonable salary post-graduation. I am patent bar eligible (Chemical Engineering) and have work experience as a patent examiner, so patent prosecution is open to me. Depending on the firm, the starting salary for a patent prosecution boutique is $100k-$160k.

- Patent law is relatively healthy compared to other areas of law, so I'm not as concerned about layoffs.

- I have worked 60+ hours per week for the last decade of my life, can handle stress well, and am emotionally stable. I will most likely not commit suicide if put in a high-stress environment.

Info like interest free loans would be helpful upfront since most of what goes into choosing a law school is balancing cost and prospects.

GW COA isn't worth more than like 100k. Paying 200k would be ripping yourself off like crazy.

Emory is just as good of a school, if not better. Take the money.

Nova wrote:Info like interest free loans would be helpful upfront since most of what goes into choosing a law school is balancing cost and prospects.

GW COA isn't worth more than like 100k. Paying 200k would be ripping yourself off like crazy.

Emory is just as good of a school, if not better. Take the money.

Nova -

Sorry, I'm new to this website, so didn't see the suggestion to include information about interest free loans, etc.

I agree with you that both GW and Emory will offer comparable qualities of education, and both are comparably ranked by the US News & World Report. However, my concern is how comparable the two schools are in terms of exit opportunities. DC has a high concentration of IP firms, and GW has an enormous alumni base in IP. Atlanta is a secondary market for IP and doesn't have as much of a national reach for patent law.

GW is objectively better for IP, but still not worth 210k. With no interest loans, Emory for 120k-130k isn't a terrible way to go. See if you can negotiate them up, but probably pull the trigger on that.

I have a similar situation. Low UG grades, t20 chemengr school, GW c/o 2014. PM me if you want.

I went the high price route. Not my finest moment. Since then I have met people (mainly during SA) who choose way lessor debt and now I feel like a chump. On paper an $8500 net income looked doable in handling a $2500 monthly payment.

Trust me tuition debt makes a significant difference on how you get to live. Advice, good school with no (or little) debt is way more preferable.

Go with the highest employment score. With PAYE, debt is way less scary. If you aren't eligible for PAYE, i wouldnt go

chem wrote:Go with the highest employment score. With PAYE, debt is way less scary. If you aren't eligible for PAYE, i wouldnt go

Yeah, no.

Jackie U wrote:I went the high price route. Not my finest moment. Since then I have met people (mainly during SA) who choose way lessor debt and now I feel like a chump. On paper an $8500 net income looked doable in handling a $2500 monthly payment.

Trust me tuition debt makes a significant difference on how you get to live. Advice, good school with no (or little) debt is way more preferable.

^ This. I traded in prestige for low debt. Can't tell you how many of my colleagues wish they'd done the same. There's something to be said for actually being able to save for a house and retirement while not being chained to biglaw because of your loans.

undecided101 wrote:I am patent bar eligible (Chemical Engineering) and have work experience as a patent examiner, so patent prosecution is open to me. Depending on the firm, the starting salary for a patent prosecution boutique is $100k-$160k.

I assume they're no longer paying for your law school at the PTO? Also, if 60+ hour work weeks don't faze you, why not just go part-time at GW and work at the patent office?

InTheHouse wrote:

undecided101 wrote:I am patent bar eligible (Chemical Engineering) and have work experience as a patent examiner, so patent prosecution is open to me. Depending on the firm, the starting salary for a patent prosecution boutique is $100k-$160k.

I assume they're no longer paying for your law school at the PTO? Also, if 60+ hour work weeks don't faze you, why not just go part-time at GW and work at the patent office?

PTO discontinued that program in 2009, although it is rumored to be returning this year.

Also, OP didn't say that they're currently working at the PTO, just that they have experience as an examiner.

I do agree that work + PT would make this a (more) palatable plan.

deuceindc wrote:

InTheHouse wrote:

undecided101 wrote:I am patent bar eligible (Chemical Engineering) and have work experience as a patent examiner, so patent prosecution is open to me. Depending on the firm, the starting salary for a patent prosecution boutique is $100k-$160k.

I assume they're no longer paying for your law school at the PTO? Also, if 60+ hour work weeks don't faze you, why not just go part-time at GW and work at the patent office?

PTO discontinued that program in 2009, although it is rumored to be returning this year.

Also, OP didn't say that they're currently working at the PTO, just that they have experience as an examiner.

I do agree that work + PT would make this a (more) palatable plan.

Working as a patent examiner is valuable for 1-2 years, but afterwards, there isn't much to learn. I don't see much of a benefit for myself to work at the PTO during law school, as I already had that experience pre-law school. I suppose the pay is decent, but there are other jobs in the industry that I can potentially get without a law degree, i.e. patent prosecution, that are more valuable in terms of the skills that I'll learn.

InTheHouse wrote:

Jackie U wrote:I went the high price route. Not my finest moment. Since then I have met people (mainly during SA) who choose way lessor debt and now I feel like a chump. On paper an $8500 net income looked doable in handling a $2500 monthly payment.

Trust me tuition debt makes a significant difference on how you get to live. Advice, good school with no (or little) debt is way more preferable.

^ This. I traded in prestige for low debt. Can't tell you how many of my colleagues wish they'd done the same. There's something to be said for actually being able to save for a house and retirement while not being chained to biglaw because of your loans.

I think your reasoning is valid, assuming that I graduate near the top of my law school class. If I am in, say, the top 20% of either Emory and GW, my employment opportunities will be pretty good. I could potentially even place into the DC market from Emory, and it wouldn't have mattered which school I had chosen. That said, I should take the lower cost option, since I'll be highly employable either way.

But say I fall at the median of my law school class. This is a likely scenario, considering that law school grades are notoriously unpredictable. Or, even worse, I rank in the bottom half of my class. In this scenario, GW would offer better employment opportunities because of its reputation in the IP industry and because IP firms heavily recruit from GW. An extra $80k might be worth it in this scenario.

undecided101 wrote:

InTheHouse wrote:

Jackie U wrote:I went the high price route. Not my finest moment. Since then I have met people (mainly during SA) who choose way lessor debt and now I feel like a chump. On paper an $8500 net income looked doable in handling a $2500 monthly payment.

Trust me tuition debt makes a significant difference on how you get to live. Advice, good school with no (or little) debt is way more preferable.

^ This. I traded in prestige for low debt. Can't tell you how many of my colleagues wish they'd done the same. There's something to be said for actually being able to save for a house and retirement while not being chained to biglaw because of your loans.

I think your reasoning is valid, assuming that I graduate near the top of my law school class. If I am in, say, the top 20% of either Emory and GW, my employment opportunities will be pretty good. I could potentially even place into the DC market from Emory, and it wouldn't have mattered which school I had chosen. That said, I should take the lower cost option, since I'll be highly employable either way.

But say I fall at the median of my law school class. This is a likely scenario, considering that law school grades are notoriously unpredictable. Or, even worse, I rank in the bottom half of my class. In this scenario, GW would offer better employment opportunities because of its reputation in the IP industry and because IP firms heavily recruit from GW. An extra $80k might be worth it in this scenario.

I think the employability of GW graduates has more to do with the graduates and their technical background than anything GW does.

InTheHouse wrote:
I think the employability of GW graduates has more to do with the graduates and their technical background than anything GW does.

+1. An EE from GW or Emory will net u the same number of offers.

Jchance wrote:

InTheHouse wrote:
I think the employability of GW graduates has more to do with the graduates and their technical background than anything GW does.

+1. An EE from GW or Emory will net u the same number of offers.

This is untrue.

You really wanna talk yourself into GW, huh?

Re take for a scholarship if you really wanna go there.

OP's parents are loaded (who has 210,000 liquid post-2009 zzz) so all the debtmongering is a little overblown. Sounds like he's getting a free degree and will be quite employable, although MS or PhD is preferable to BS for patent pros.

Emory and GW are peers. Negotiate with GW for higher scholarship. I'd take Emory, but yolo when you own the means of production.

Reason I'm not jumping on taking the exam again is because Im guessing OP is a splitter.

Aren't employers going to Emory in droves after the new rankings?

DON'T.

DO IT.