Yale v. Ruby Forum

[09042014]

Again, the relevant comparison in these scenarios is not YLS students versus Chicago students, but YLS students who turned down Rubys and Hamiltons versus Ruby and Hamilton students. It's not clear at all that there's any difference in career outcomes, even in terms of unicorn jobs -- let alone normal law graduate jobs -- between these two groups.

Yeah, this is true. Though I don't have regrets yet, since I'm happy very happy with how things have turned out so far, I think I would have taken the Ruby if I were deciding again today. I took the "I'm not a special snowflake" idea to an extreme, and really didn't trust myself to be anything other than a median student (who might as easily end up far below that as easily above) and wanted the gigantic safety net Yale provides. I think I'd be a little more confident in retrospect.

Because a 180/4.03 had every reason to believe that they'd be bottom of the barrel at UChicago.

Compared to a class full of 172/3.8's they should be sort of worried. LSAT/UGPA is a pretty crappy indicator for an individual. Especially if they studied for the LSAT, that makes it effectively useless.

[20141023]

.

[WheninLaw]

For the class of 2015, the Ruby's did well. I know of one or two at median, but at least 7 or 8 (out of 20) made LR or ended up with excellent grades. Not that LSAT/gpa is predictive, but there's some worthless anecdotal evidence.

[northwood]

Why are you going to law school at all? You don't seem to want to actually practice law. Seems like a poor choice going to law school.

I want to do things you need a JD for. Include practice law for a short time.

Let's maybe accept the premise of the thread, which is that I am choosing between 2 options, not that I am trying to figure out why law. I maybe wrote "why law" in the personal statement that got me into these places. Thanks for thinking though!

So you are not completely sold on practicing law as an attorney. For that reason, I would strongly suggest minimizing your cost of attendance. Both schools will provide you with a solid likelihood of practicing law. Both will also provide you with solid JD preferred options and networks. However, having less debt allows you to have more concrete options- and gives you the freedom to change things up as you see fit.

I still vote for Chicago all the way.

[Instinctive]

Thank you all for your help and advice.

I chose Yale, and am very excited about the prospects!

[aboutmydaylight]

TLS is gonna be pissed as shit.

[kaiser]

TLS is gonna be pissed as shit.

Nah, I just kinda feel bad for the inevitable disappointment the guy/girl will likely feel. Of course that isn't to say OP won't end up with a killer job, great network, and all, but when he realizes that he likely could have done it (or at least dont somthing quite similar) without crushing debt that affects financial future. THats the moment when the regret kicks in. Like I said, there is a reason that, of the 3 H grads in my firm class year, all 3 have expressed that they wish they took full rides at lower T14 schools (that sentiment would only amplified if the full ride was from CCN). Maybe there is something magical about Y that separates it, but I can't for the life of me see why OP would go that route, or what in the world convinced OP that Yale was a better choice given the interests and circumstances noted.

But hey, if thats the route OP is going, might as well make the best of it and enjoy it, and I wish OP the best of luck

[20141023]

.

[anyriotgirl]

TLS is gonna be pissed as shit.

personally, I'm hoping for trickle down waitlist movement and scholarship $$$, so not that pissed. please don't explain to me that it doesn't work like that, I don't want to hear about it.

[jimbeam21]

.

[jbagelboy]

TLS is gonna be pissed as shit.

Nah, I just kinda feel bad for the inevitable disappointment the guy/girl will likely feel. Of course that isn't to say OP won't end up with a killer job, great network, and all, but when he realizes that he likely could have done it (or at least dont somthing quite similar) without crushing debt that affects financial future. THats the moment when the regret kicks in. Like I said, there is a reason that, of the 3 H grads in my firm class year, all 3 have expressed that they wish they took full rides at lower T14 schools (that sentiment would only amplified if the full ride was from CCN). Maybe there is something magical about Y that separates it, but I can't for the life of me see why OP would go that route, or what in the world convinced OP that Yale was a better choice given the interests and circumstances noted.

I'm guessing more family money going towards tuition than OP included in the estimates, either because he/she didn't know before, underplayed it to inspire a more vibrant discourse on the options, or most likely had a heart-to-heart with mom & dad who gave the boomer #yolo go to the best school, we'll support you speech. Happens every time.

Remember Yale did not shell out need-based which indicates more resources than meet the eye. Not everything is as objective as TLS would like it to be. I'm betting nearly all the people presented with this choice who went for YHS did so with the reassurance of significant financial support, making the ruby more of a consolation prize than a brilliant opportunity.

But yes, good luck OP! Yale is amazing, congratulations (seriously).

[kaiser]

^^^

I was actually going to make a joke about whether OP just gained an inheritence or something, since I genuinely couldn't figure out why he had chosen Yale, but then I realized maybe some family member actually did kick in extra $$ to make the debt burden a lot less severe. If so, that would certainly change the calculus.

[Instinctive]

Actually Yale gave significantly more grant money than expected (I expected $0) - so yall are on the right track as far as some cost situation changing.

On top of that - the MBA is a powerful thing. I don't think it was in my OP but shortly after this discussion ran its course I also gained admittance to the SOM.

So I'll graduate Yale with both degrees. That's a key differentiator for me. The money won't matter. I'll get 1 year at YLS, 1 at SOM, 1 to go work professionally for a year, then 2 years taking classes at both schools to finish the degrees.

Yale's been very good to me offering flexibility and financial support that wasn't in the picture when I posted.




Also, TLS is too conservative sometimes (and I'm a staunch fiscal conservative!). Look - I'm driven. I work hard to get what I want and it usually comes to fruition one way or another. No reason to think that's gonna change and cost me down the line.


Thank you all again for your help. The conversation was really helpful in making my decision.

[Tiago Splitter]

Actually Yale gave significantly more grant money than expected (I expected $0) - so yall are on the right track as far as some cost situation changing.

On top of that - the MBA is a powerful thing. I don't think it was in my OP but shortly after this discussion ran its course I also gained admittance to the SOM.

So I'll graduate Yale with both degrees. That's a key differentiator for me. The money won't matter. I'll get 1 year at YLS, 1 at SOM, 1 to go work professionally for a year, then 2 years taking classes at both schools to finish the degrees.

Yale's been very good to me offering flexibility and financial support that wasn't in the picture when I posted.




Also, TLS is too conservative sometimes (and I'm a staunch fiscal conservative!). Look - I'm driven. I work hard to get what I want and it usually comes to fruition one way or another. No reason to think that's gonna change and cost me down the line.


Thank you all again for your help. The conversation was really helpful in making my decision.

Wait it's gonna take five years to complete the thing? You didn't mention that opportunity cost until now.

And if you're driven and a sure-fire success then why hedge so hard with your school choice?

[Instinctive]

Actually Yale gave significantly more grant money than expected (I expected $0) - so yall are on the right track as far as some cost situation changing.

On top of that - the MBA is a powerful thing. I don't think it was in my OP but shortly after this discussion ran its course I also gained admittance to the SOM.

So I'll graduate Yale with both degrees. That's a key differentiator for me. The money won't matter. I'll get 1 year at YLS, 1 at SOM, 1 to go work professionally for a year, then 2 years taking classes at both schools to finish the degrees.

Yale's been very good to me offering flexibility and financial support that wasn't in the picture when I posted.




Also, TLS is too conservative sometimes (and I'm a staunch fiscal conservative!). Look - I'm driven. I work hard to get what I want and it usually comes to fruition one way or another. No reason to think that's gonna change and cost me down the line.


Thank you all again for your help. The conversation was really helpful in making my decision.

Wait it's gonna take five years to complete the thing? You didn't mention that opportunity cost until now.

And if you're driven and a sure-fire success then why hedge so hard with your school choice?

5 years is my choice (perhaps I was not clear enough there). They're allowing me to choose A) 3 or 4 years of school as well as B) waiving the intern year if I desire (though I don't think I'll waive it).

But you only get one chance to go to school at Yale. Why burn through it in 3 years flat when I could have 4 total, and spend one pulling down a salary from McKinsey/a NBA team/some other job? There may be an opportunity cost in time for the work year, but even an entry level position with McKinsey (or other similar firm) pays enough to significantly lighten the debt load the following year (purely from not having to take a loan).

[Tiago Splitter]

But you only get one chance to go to school at Yale. Why burn through it in 3 years flat when I could have 4 total, and spend one pulling down a salary from McKinsey/a NBA team/some other job? There may be an opportunity cost in time for the work year, but even an entry level position with McKinsey (or other similar firm) pays enough to significantly lighten the debt load the following year (purely from not having to take a loan).

If you're worried about money this is a bad plan, not a good one. The good plan is to minimize time in school. Is it four years of tuition?

[chizzy]

OP you should also know that yale offers an accelerated JD/MBA program that lasts for 3years. if you're worried about costs and time you should do that

[jbagelboy]

Actually Yale gave significantly more grant money than expected (I expected $0) - so yall are on the right track as far as some cost situation changing.

On top of that - the MBA is a powerful thing. I don't think it was in my OP but shortly after this discussion ran its course I also gained admittance to the SOM.

So I'll graduate Yale with both degrees. That's a key differentiator for me. The money won't matter. I'll get 1 year at YLS, 1 at SOM, 1 to go work professionally for a year, then 2 years taking classes at both schools to finish the degrees.

Yale's been very good to me offering flexibility and financial support that wasn't in the picture when I posted.




Also, TLS is too conservative sometimes (and I'm a staunch fiscal conservative!). Look - I'm driven. I work hard to get what I want and it usually comes to fruition one way or another. No reason to think that's gonna change and cost me down the line.


Thank you all again for your help. The conversation was really helpful in making my decision.

Wait it's gonna take five years to complete the thing? You didn't mention that opportunity cost until now.

And if you're driven and a sure-fire success then why hedge so hard with your school choice?

5 years is my choice (perhaps I was not clear enough there). They're allowing me to choose A) 3 or 4 years of school as well as B) waiving the intern year if I desire (though I don't think I'll waive it).

But you only get one chance to go to school at Yale. Why burn through it in 3 years flat when I could have 4 total, and spend one pulling down a salary from McKinsey/a NBA team/some other job? There may be an opportunity cost in time for the work year, but even an entry level position with McKinsey (or other similar firm) pays enough to significantly lighten the debt load the following year (purely from not having to take a loan).

Your program sounds pretty cool. I say power to you (although my point via changing financial circumstances accounting in large part still stands for most students). Your goals certainly aren't standard for TLS, and they may defy the standard cost/benefit analyses we conduct here for big law or big fed driven people. If this career trajectory and lifestyle sounds like the path you are looking for, then I agree it's certainly not truly available through another JD program. I hope you aren't paying full freight for the additional year, but it sounds like Yale is providing significant financial incentives of their own. Good luck!

(Although I will say for your own benefit that personal debt reduction has little to do with political fiscal conservatism. It's just pragmatic.)

[Instinctive]

OP you should also know that yale offers an accelerated JD/MBA program that lasts for 3years. if you're worried about costs and time you should do that

It's almost like researched the schools I apply to - please see the reference above where I say they are allowing me to choose either the 3 or the 4 year program. Thanks for making sure I knew though, it probably isn't clear.

[Instinctive]

But you only get one chance to go to school at Yale. Why burn through it in 3 years flat when I could have 4 total, and spend one pulling down a salary from McKinsey/a NBA team/some other job? There may be an opportunity cost in time for the work year, but even an entry level position with McKinsey (or other similar firm) pays enough to significantly lighten the debt load the following year (purely from not having to take a loan).

If you're worried about money this is a bad plan, not a good one. The good plan is to minimize time in school. Is it four years of tuition?

This is a great point. Good thing I didn't say that. I'm starting to wonder if TLS just projects its own thoughts onto situations instead of actually reading the ones put forth.

Clearly, what first and foremost concerns me is setting myself up for a career of jobs that I want and that I am happy doing. This sets me up for that, and money will follow. Finances were a concern back when the difference was $250k+, not so much now that it's down to half that.

[09042014]

Yale SOM is TTT. Not even T20.

[Instinctive]

Yale SOM is TTT. Not even T20.

Check again lolz


ETA: by which I mean USNWR has them at 13, right behind Darden, businessweek has them at 20, Forbes has them at 18 last year, no new ranking yet.

It's not HBS, but I'd rather do a joint degree now than have to take 2 years later in life to go through HBS.

[09042014]

Yale SOM is TTT. Not even T20.

Check again lolz


ETA: by which I mean USNWR has them at 13, right behind Darden, businessweek has them at 20, Forbes has them at 18 last year, no new ranking yet.

It's not HBS, but I'd rather do a joint degree now than have to take 2 years later in life to go through HBS.

M7 or TTT bro.

If you are going to take the extra two years, why not try applying to a better school.

[Instinctive]

Yale SOM is TTT. Not even T20.

Check again lolz


ETA: by which I mean USNWR has them at 13, right behind Darden, businessweek has them at 20, Forbes has them at 18 last year, no new ranking yet.

It's not HBS, but I'd rather do a joint degree now than have to take 2 years later in life to go through HBS.

M7 or TTT bro.

If you are going to take the extra two years, why not try applying to a better school.

To each their own. My contacts are in agreement that doing it this way is a good choice. :shrug: You should go get your degree from an M7 since you know so much about it. Best of luck!

[Instinctive]

BTW - Mods feel free to lock this. I just wanted to let people know what I chose.