Top Law Schools

Please don't quote!

Alright TLS fam. It's down to the wire. I'm calling it a cycle and need some input.

-The schools you are considering
UCI with 150K
Notre Dame with 90K

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.

UCI 45-50K (I could apply for resident status after year one)
ND- 100K (I could save one semester of COA by doing the Chicago program and living at home)

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Loans. I should note that I have 30K in undergrad debt.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
I have ties to Chicago, Texas, and S.O. ties to California

-Your general career goals
Open to Biglaw but not dying for it (I realize the prospects at these schools), otherwise some non-prestigious government/PI/small law work is fine.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
165/3.4 MA URM

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Three times (plus a cancel).

Misc: I'm eligible for a re-take in June and I plan to use it. I essentially want input on which school folks would deposit at in my situation. I want to deposit in case my re-take does not go well. If I score a bit higher on my re-take I will reapply.

Also, my main concern with UCI is the volatility of its employment numbers. It's 2013 numbers were similar to ND's but I can't be sure they'll hold. They are planning a class of 100 for 2017. ND just seems like a more stable option but the money at UCI is hard to pass up. I'm stuck.

That price is right at the border of ND being worthwhile. Smart to use your LSAT try in June to bump up. Also try and get some more money from ND before that as well.

Tried to negotiate with ND and was promptly told no.

UCI for free certainly isn't a bad option if you're down for practicing in a small law firm in California forever. Between the two, I'd go with that one.

One of the biggest differences between the two would probably be the value of its alumni network and having those connections. ND's is outstanding and I'd imagine UCI's is minimal since there just aren't many UCI law alumns yet and I'm not sure how strong/loyal the alumni base for UCI is in general throughout the country. That may or may be important to you though.

twenty wrote:UCI for free certainly isn't a bad option if you're down for practicing in a small law firm in California forever. Between the two, I'd go with that one.

Thanks for your thoughts!

mx23250 wrote:One of the biggest differences between the two would probably be the value of its alumni network and having those connections. ND's is outstanding and I'd imagine UCI's is minimal since there just aren't many UCI law alumns yet and I'm not sure how strong/loyal the alumni base for UCI is in general throughout the country. That may or may be important to you though.

This is true. It's important to me to a certain extent. On some days I lean toward ND cause they're established and proven.

thebobs1987 wrote: That price is right at the border of ND being worthwhile. Smart to use your LSAT try in June to bump up. Also try and get some more money from ND before that as well.

Yo, OP siad please don't quote. Just throwing that out there.

ManoftheHour wrote:

thebobs1987 wrote: That price is right at the border of ND being worthwhile. Smart to use your LSAT try in June to bump up. Also try and get some more money from ND before that as well.

Yo, OP siad please don't quote. Just throwing that out there.

Good looking out!

A 100 person c/o 2017 sounds extremely low considering their Fall 2013 entering class was 126. The way the school is structured I seriously doubt they could operate even at 120 for very long without going bankrupt (esp. not while giving out free rides). I'd get a better quote.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/irvine/2012/

good luck on your re-take

timbs4339 wrote:A 100 person c/o 2017 sounds extremely low considering their Fall 2013 entering class was 126. The way the school is structured I seriously doubt they could operate even at 120 for very long without going bankrupt (esp. not while giving out free rides). I'd get a better quote.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/irvine/2012/

100 was the number I got from admissions when I contacted them. I thought it seemed low as well.

Must be really trying to keep high averages to reach that T20 ranking they're aiming for.

I don't think UCI at that price is bad at all if you're not biglaw or bust. That said, I'd personally take ND. There's just too much uncertainty about UCI. Also, ND's alumni network greatly beats UCI's alumni of 56 people.

If "UCI to 100" is a real thing then I'd go there, but I'm skeptical.

ManoftheHour wrote:I don't think UCI at that price is bad at all if you're not biglaw or bust. That said, I'd personally take ND. There's just too much uncertainty about UCI. Also, ND's alumni network greatly beats UCI's alumni of 56 people.

The uncertainty is definitely scaring me away. But the scholly seems to bring me back every time I think about it.

Tiago Splitter wrote:If "UCI to 100" is a real thing then I'd go there, but I'm skeptical.

I'm skeptical too. Another risk that comes with attending I suppose.

ManoftheHour wrote:I don't think UCI at that price is bad at all if you're not biglaw or bust. That said, I'd personally take ND. There's just too much uncertainty about UCI. Also, ND's alumni network greatly beats UCI's alumni of 56 people.

My feeling too. I think that's a fair amount for ND too. Hopefully you can get up a few more points and get a better deal. Maybe I don't know how URM cycles very well, but I figured you would've done better with your numbers/stats.

Winston1984 wrote:

ManoftheHour wrote:I don't think UCI at that price is bad at all if you're not biglaw or bust. That said, I'd personally take ND. There's just too much uncertainty about UCI. Also, ND's alumni network greatly beats UCI's alumni of 56 people.

My feeling too. I think that's a fair amount for ND too. Hopefully you can get up a few more points and get a better deal. Maybe I don't know how URM cycles very well, but I figured you would've done better with your numbers/stats.

Yeah, I'm definitely disappointed with my cycle. I got shut out of the T14. The only WL I'm on that I'd remotely consider at sticker is UChicago.

I think my cycle lends credence to the notion that MA/PR URMS receive a significantly lower boost than AA/NA URMs. I was nervous when I checked out Twenty's cycle from last year and mine ended up being weird too. I think for MA/PR you gotta be at/above one median. Oh well, I'm not above a re-take and these options are okay all things considered.

BentleyLittle wrote:

Winston1984 wrote:

ManoftheHour wrote:I don't think UCI at that price is bad at all if you're not biglaw or bust. That said, I'd personally take ND. There's just too much uncertainty about UCI. Also, ND's alumni network greatly beats UCI's alumni of 56 people.

My feeling too. I think that's a fair amount for ND too. Hopefully you can get up a few more points and get a better deal. Maybe I don't know how URM cycles very well, but I figured you would've done better with your numbers/stats.

Yeah, I'm definitely disappointed with my cycle. I got shut out of the T14. The only WL I'm on that I'd remotely consider at sticker is UChicago.

I think my cycle lends credence to the notion that MA/PR URMS receive a significantly lower boost than AA/NA URMs. I was nervous when I checked out Twenty's cycle from last year and mine ended up being weird too. I think for MA/PR you gotta be at/above one median. Oh well, I'm not above a re-take and these options are okay all things considered.

Well you still had a good cycle, and maybe a few points can you knock you off one of those T-14 WLs as well? Good luck to you on your June take!

The MA boost is pretty weak, I feel like an average applicant still needs to be at the very least near 25th to have a shot. I'd probably deposit ND and ride out the wait lists. People have and do get money off the wait lists btw. You never know, a T14 could be desperate for diversity after their initial numbers come in.

aboutmydaylight wrote:The MA boost is pretty weak, I feel like an average applicant still needs to be at the very least near 25th to have a shot. I'd probably deposit ND and ride out the wait lists. People have and do get money off the wait lists btw. You never know, a T14 could be desperate for diversity after their initial numbers come in.

That was my thinking as well. Hopefully I see some movement after the deadlines.

Thanks to those that have responded so far. Anyone else care to chine in? Poll responders that haven't posted? Trying to catch the evening TLS crowd.

Where do you want to live after law school? UCI law will not be useful outside of CA (immediately at least). But if you are determined on living in CA after law school, this would probably be the best option.

I can see why it would be such a close call. I guess my reasoning for voting UCI is that these two schools are not competitors, and since you seem okay with not getting Biglaw and are fine living in CA, going to school for (almost) free seems like the best option. That scholarship seems to mitigate the risks you are worried about more than the ND scholarship mitigates the risk of graduating from ND with that amount of debt and no job. I think its a tough decision. Good luck.

lol, the poll is tied at 9 apiece. This really is a tough decision though. Given your situation, they're not bad options.

sobrickay wrote:I can see why it would be such a close call. I guess my reasoning for voting UCI is that these two schools are not competitors, and since you seem okay with not getting Biglaw and are fine living in CA, going to school for (almost) free seems like the best option. That scholarship seems to mitigate the risks you are worried about more than the ND scholarship mitigates the risk of graduating from ND with that amount of debt and no job. I think its a tough decision. Good luck.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think the money mitigates the risk as well. Especially if I can get in state after a year, that's an instant savings of 14kish in loans for 2/3L.

ManoftheHour wrote:lol, the poll is tied at 9 apiece. This really is a tough decision though. Given your situation, they're not bad options.

UCI has taken the lead! I'm gonna have to visit and see it for myself.