UPDATED: UVA sticker, GULC ($), William & Mary ($)? Forum

[awoodard]

Hey everyone, I'm deciding between the following: UVA vs. GULC vs. W&M. I will be financing my legal education solely through loans. I'm from the southeast and ultimately want to practice in DC. I'm pretty much against doing biglaw; would definitely prefer something in government or a smaller firm.

LSAT: 174
GPA: 3.4

UPDATED from my last post:

Total COA:
UVA: sticker
GULC: ~175k (got 30k/year)
W&M: ~100k

Not really considering UVA anymore, sticker is a bit too scary.

I guess my question remains the same, if I'm planning on doing government/some other type of public interest, is it feasible to attend GULC?
Is the extra 75k worth it to attend GULC?


Thanks for any input.

[tho]

I am new here but it seems that the general consensus is that unless biglaw is a viable option then sticker anywhere is not a good deal. 20 years of debt isnt much fun. I like William and Mary here.

[SplitMyPants]

Where else did you apply and how early? As a similar splitter (my LSN numbers are slightly inflated until the cycle ends), I can say that you should be seeing T14 money. Perhaps you should consider reapplying in Sept and blanket almost the entire T14. Sticker is some scary shit.

[jkpolk]

Hey everyone, I'm deciding between the following: UVA vs. GULC vs. W&M. I will be financing my legal education solely through loans. I'm from the southeast and ultimately want to practice in DC. I'm pretty much against doing biglaw; would definitely prefer something in government or a smaller firm.

LSAT: 174
GPA: 3.4

Total COA:
UVA: sticker (~250k+ interest)
GULC: sticker (~250k+ interest)
W&M: ~100k

It's possible that I might get a scholarship from GULC in the near future, but I'm not overly optimistic about it at this point.

My biggest question: is the employment/prestige advantage coming out of UVA or GULC enough to cancel out the significantly larger debt I'd be incurring? I don't want to have regrets in the future and feel like I "settled" and shorted myself of better opportunities. I am pretty debt-adverse, but I'm more comfortable with W&M's offer and just can't seem to swallow the sticker price of either UVA or GULC. I really, really don't want to do biglaw. Is that (along with a program like LRAP) the only way to realistically pay off that mountain of debt?

Thanks for any input.

With your goals I'd lean W&M, but I think you're paying too much for whatever small chance at DC W&M would give you.

I'd advise reapply also

[awoodard]

Thanks for the input. I am not going to reapply next cycle, for a variety of reasons. I did apply relatively early; GULC was complete in mid-Oct, UVA early Nov. I applied to other schools but have narrowed it down to these three.

[BigZuck]

Thanks for the input. I am not going to reapply next cycle, for a variety of reasons. I did apply relatively early; GULC was complete in mid-Oct, UVA early Nov. I applied to other schools but have narrowed it down to these three.

What do the jobs you are hoping for pay and how are you going to pay off your student loan debt?

[SplitMyPants]

Thanks for the input. I am not going to reapply next cycle, for a variety of reasons. I did apply relatively early; GULC was complete in mid-Oct, UVA early Nov. I applied to other schools but have narrowed it down to these three.

Did you apply to Cornell? They seem to be very splitter-friendly with money and that would have been good leverage.

[transferror]

Meh, I guess W&M but I'm not happy about it. Why no Vandy/Emory?

[BigZuck]

Thanks for the input. I am not going to reapply next cycle, for a variety of reasons. I did apply relatively early; GULC was complete in mid-Oct, UVA early Nov. I applied to other schools but have narrowed it down to these three.

Did you apply to Cornell? They seem to be very splitter-friendly with money and that would have been good leverage.

Might have been a good choice but not good leverage IMO.

UVA doesn't consider them a peer and GULC is weird and dumb when it comes to money.

[Tuxedo]

Meh, I guess W&M but I'm not happy about it. Why no Vandy/Emory?

This is a good questions—with those numbers you might get the same amount of money from Emory (and probably some for Vandy) with notably improved employment outcomes.

[hichvichwoh]

Have you tried actually negotiating with GULC or are you just assuming that they won't give you anything? I was in a pretty similar situation (worse actually, I was accepted to GULC off the waitlist and I hadn't been accepted to any higher ranked schools) and they gave me some money after I asked for it.

[Nelson]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

[hichvichwoh]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

this is pretty harsh. I think W&M would be an option if you're in-state and want to practice in-state

[awoodard]

Have you tried actually negotiating with GULC or are you just assuming that they won't give you anything? I was in a pretty similar situation (worse actually, I was accepted to GULC off the waitlist and I hadn't been accepted to any higher ranked schools) and they gave me some money after I asked for it.

I haven't yet received word about whether or not I'm getting a scholarship (I was told I'm being considered), but I received my financial aid award package last week, and as of right now there is no merit- or need-based aid. I'm going to wait it out for a couple weeks to see if I get anything, hoping for the best.

[awoodard]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Ultimately, I want to be a government lawyer--DA's / US attorney's office, or something of the sort.

On that same note, is it plausible for people to do LRAP to pay off loans? I know there are tons of threads about this, so I'll search through the forums. If money weren't an object, I'd probably commit to GULC today, but as someone stated earlier--sticker is some scary shit.

[hichvichwoh]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Ultimately, I want to be a government lawyer--DA's / US attorney's office, or something of the sort.

On that same note, is it plausible for people to do LRAP to pay off loans? I know there are tons of threads about this, so I'll search through the forums. If money weren't an object, I'd probably commit to GULC today, but as someone stated earlier--sticker is some scary shit.

TLS will correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't those jobs WAAAAAYYYY more competitive than biglaw? If so, then you'd pretty much have to forget W&M, leaving you with sticker but not biglaw...which is scary

[lecsa]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Ultimately, I want to be a government lawyer--DA's / US attorney's office, or something of the sort.

On that same note, is it plausible for people to do LRAP to pay off loans? I know there are tons of threads about this, so I'll search through the forums. If money weren't an object, I'd probably commit to GULC today, but as someone stated earlier--sticker is some scary shit.

TLS will correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't those jobs WAAAAAYYYY more competitive than biglaw? If so, then you'd pretty much have to forget W&M, leaving you with sticker but not biglaw...which is scary

Yes for USAO you need to fed clerk. DA varies by location but in big cities much much more competitive

These are all too expensive

[BigZuck]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Oh wow, just saw this. Nelly gonna Nell I guess.

In all seriousness Nelly, I'm going to kindly ask that you stop posting in the on topics if this is what you have to bring to the table. You know I appreciate your aggrotard posting style but if you're going to give bad advice coupled with your unbalanced rage that's just a bad combination and it really hurts the discourse.

Unless this was some sort of hilarious CCNP trolling that WHOOSHED over my head? If so, then carry on.

[JCougar]

government attorney is so dicey these days. Really depends on the 2016 elections. If things go to hell and the Republicans beat Hillary, expect FedGov hiring to be slashed to the point of hiring freezes. If this happens, you'll have to try and pay off sticker debt with midlaw (which is often not any better than biglaw, but less pay). I don't intend to make political statements simply for the sake of being political--but it's a simple reality that government hiring has turned into a political football with the rise of radicalism in the GOP, and that becomes a factual reality when jobs are taken away.

I do not think you should pay full price anywhere. But I am also surprised that you haven't seen any money with your numbers. I think they clearly warrant a sizable scholarship from a lower T14. Either wait for money that should be coming your way, or apply to more schools next year. Don't go to those schools at full price no matter what given your goals.

[Nelson]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Oh wow, just saw this. Nelly gonna Nell I guess.

In all seriousness Nelly, I'm going to kindly ask that you stop posting in the on topics if this is what you have to bring to the table. You know I appreciate your aggrotard posting style but if you're going to give bad advice coupled with your unbalanced rage that's just a bad combination and it really hurts the discourse.

Unless this was some sort of hilarious CCNP trolling that WHOOSHED over my head? If so, then carry on.

What's "aggrotard" about saying there must be a middle ground between paying sticker for UVA or going to W&M? I guess there might be some narrow group of people for whom W&M makes sense, but it's not very many people. Unless OP is from VA.

[Law Sauce]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Oh wow, just saw this. Nelly gonna Nell I guess.

In all seriousness Nelly, I'm going to kindly ask that you stop posting in the on topics if this is what you have to bring to the table. You know I appreciate your aggrotard posting style but if you're going to give bad advice coupled with your unbalanced rage that's just a bad combination and it really hurts the discourse.

Unless this was some sort of hilarious CCNP trolling that WHOOSHED over my head? If so, then carry on.

?

[Law Sauce]

I do not think you should pay full price anywhere. But I am also surprised that you haven't seen any money with your numbers. I think they clearly warrant a sizable scholarship from a lower T14. Either wait for money that should be coming your way, or apply to more schools next year. Don't go to those schools at full price no matter what given your goals.

OP is a splitter with the classic splitter problem. The GPA is not bad but not good enough to help anyone GPA medians. Sizable scholarship from a t14 is unlikely because the high LSAT doesn't really help the school any more than an LSAT that is one point higher than their median. People who are at one median and above the other (or even at both) are much more likely to get money, even if the combination looks less impressive.

OP, how well do you know what big law is really like? regional big law? etc.? I'm not sure how you are going to pay off either without going into a somewhat largish firm (I mean government is such a maybe). Why does the size of the firm deter you so much anyway? Do you have any particular concerns about this "biglaw" concept? hours? QoL? Clientele? Because not all firms and not all markets are the same on one or all of these issues.

[BigZuck]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Oh wow, just saw this. Nelly gonna Nell I guess.

In all seriousness Nelly, I'm going to kindly ask that you stop posting in the on topics if this is what you have to bring to the table. You know I appreciate your aggrotard posting style but if you're going to give bad advice coupled with your unbalanced rage that's just a bad combination and it really hurts the discourse.

Unless this was some sort of hilarious CCNP trolling that WHOOSHED over my head? If so, then carry on.

What's "aggrotard" about saying there must be a middle ground between paying sticker for UVA or going to W&M? I guess there might be some narrow group of people for whom W&M makes sense, but it's not very many people. Unless OP is from VA.

Nothing wrong with asking about a middle ground. Something terribly wrong about saying W&M is never worth attending even if free.

And I meant generally speaking. You know, when you fly off the handle with little provocation? Just a general overly aggressive, angry posting style. I love your abusive nature, I really do, I'm just saying I would rather you keep it to the lounge if this is what we have to endure when you post in the on topics.

Here, we are trying to help people, not give SPS advice like "William and Mary is never worth attending." That's stupid.

Don't be stupid bro. And please, don't Nelly up the on topics. That's all I'm asking. Kindly.

[JCougar]

I'm just glad to see that there's one more person on BigZuck's shitlist. I now have more company!

Brucewaynecougarnelson.

[BigZuck]

I'm just glad to see that there's one more person on BigZuck's shitlist. I now have more company!

Brucewaynecougarnelson.

I do genuinely appreciate your contributions on some level because at least the message has some resemblance of good (although I'll admit, the Brucewayne part of the persona gets a little overly abusive in the on topics at times).

With Nelson it's abuse or "W&M is never worth attending, ever." It's too much. There's nothing redeeming there. I mean, the abusive nature can be funny on some level but that's what the lounge is for. Not the on topics.

That's all I'm saying. Kindly.