Top Law Schools

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The moderators will tell you to create only one thread per topic. As you're currently on number 3, I can at least stop you from going any further.

It's Sunday morning, so the forums are pretty sparse right now. Just be patient and you'll get some good advice.

Soco Law wrote:The moderators will tell you to create only one thread per topic. As you're currently on number 3, I can at least stop you from going any further.

It's Sunday morning, so the forums are pretty sparse right now. Just be patient and you'll get some good advice.

I'm very sorry!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess I'm too anxious now!!!!!!!!

Do any of these degrees help you locally? Without a green card, long term residency in the US is not likely. You might get a BigLaw firm willing to go through the hoops that will let you work for a few years after graduation, but I would consider your odds of finding employment much lower than the average for each of these schools. Basically, you are looking at much less than a 50% chance of employment in the US after graduation.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

You can find total cost of attendance, including living expenses, on the schools' websites.

A note of caution: You should be aware that non-native English speakers often struggle in American law schools. The J.D. curriculum, the bar exam, and legal work are all heavily focused on reading and writing complicated materials. Although you will undoubtedly improve over the course of the three years, your ability to land a Big Law job is dependent on your performance at the beginning of the course of study. Given that none of these schools place over 50% of their class into Big Law jobs, the odds are against you even without any (real or perceived) language handicap.

TooOld4This wrote:Do any of these degrees help you locally? Without a green card, long term residency in the US is not likely. You might get a BigLaw firm willing to go through the hoops that will let you work for a few years after graduation, but I would consider your odds of finding employment much lower than the average for each of these schools. Basically, you are looking at much less than a 50% chance of employment in the US after graduation.

definitely help locally in CHINA. but still it's better to work in USA after graduation if possible because you will be making DOLLARS(six times the RMB)! I guess I will need a H1B visa to work in US and big laws are the only ones that are willing to sponsor H1B. Also, I can accept the fact that I might be able to work in US for just a few years. Legal work experience in US for a few years will definitely help when I get back to CHina.

(1) Given that you have never lived in the states - or lived abroad - I would strongly lean against Vandy as Nashville is provincial and may be the most difficult adjustment for you. The most important part of law school is getting good grades, and if you're comfortable, you will get better grades. I passed up Stanford for Columbia because my family was in New York and I thought it would be nice to have home-cooked meals during finals. I don't regret it.

(2) Between UCLA and UT is a more difficult decision. Both cities (in the case of UCLA, its specific part of LA) are terrific places to live. I think that including cost of living, you are right, UT will be cheaper. I also think you will feel less "poor" as a student in Austin, which is a glorified college town.
However, I would be somewhat concerned about how well you would interview at Texas firms as a Chinese national with no Western experience prior to law school. My hunch - and it's just a hunch - is that your background will "play" much better at LA firms (and even better at NY firms, to be honest).

(3) It is very difficult for someone with your background to develop the kind of super-fluency in American English necessary to become a litigator after 3 years in the United States. If you want to stay, your best bet -by far - is to focus on becoming a transactional lawyer. There is obviously a huge market for transactional lawyers who are Mandarin speakers and can relate to Chinese clients, and the kind of fluency necessary for drafting of transactional documents is much more easily attained by a non-native speaker than the fluency necessary to draft court pleadings.

(4) You should be working with a tutor or advisor as soon as you hit our shores to make sure your written fluency is good enough to get the grades you deserve on exams. Your student services department may be able to refer you to someone, or you may be able to find one of the many PhD students who tutor on the side to earn extra cash at major universities such as UT or UCLA. I think making sure that your written English is polished up by exam time is as essential as any of your legal studies, because there is nothing more frustrating than having an "A" level exam in your head but being unable to achieve the best grades because of a language barrier.

Lincoln wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

You can find total cost of attendance, including living expenses, on the schools' websites.

A note of caution: You should be aware that non-native English speakers often struggle in American law schools. The J.D. curriculum, the bar exam, and legal work are all heavily focused on reading and writing complicated materials. Although you will undoubtedly improve over the course of the three years, your ability to land a Big Law job is dependent on your performance at the beginning of the course of study. Given that none of these schools place over 50% of their class into Big Law jobs, the odds are against you even without any (real or perceived) language handicap.

I took the lsat twice, first one 168 and second one 171. GPA:3.44/4.00(but it's a CHina university grading) LSAC give me a Above Average grading.

Actually UMN also offered me full tuition waived schlarship. Do you whink that might be a better choice?it will be very cheap, though I know it also means basically no chance to stay in US for work.

One other thing: no matter where you end up, you should make as strong an effort as possible to befriend and socialize with as many Western classmates as possible. This is harder to do than it sounds - you will feel hugely tempted to socialize with fellow Chinese students because they will make you feel the most comfortable and they will relate to your experience and they speak your language.

But the more you hang out with Westerners in a social setting prior to interviewing with firms, the better you will interview. You will pick up on many more of the subtle social cues that you need to relate to your interviewer and make them certain that you will be able to integrate into a US workplace and deal appropriately with US clients.

FYI, my background is that I am midlevel associate at a US law firm and I have worked with and managed several Chinese associates. I'm giving you advice based upon landmines I've observed that have tripped up some of them, and anecdotes from the successful ones.

zhifeixie wrote:

Lincoln wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

You can find total cost of attendance, including living expenses, on the schools' websites.

A note of caution: You should be aware that non-native English speakers often struggle in American law schools. The J.D. curriculum, the bar exam, and legal work are all heavily focused on reading and writing complicated materials. Although you will undoubtedly improve over the course of the three years, your ability to land a Big Law job is dependent on your performance at the beginning of the course of study. Given that none of these schools place over 50% of their class into Big Law jobs, the odds are against you even without any (real or perceived) language handicap.

I took the lsat twice, first one 168 and second one 171. GPA:3.44/4.00(but it's a CHina university grading) LSAC give me a Above Average grading.

Actually UMN also offered me full tuition waived schlarship. Do you whink that might be a better choice?it will be very cheap, though I know it also means basically no chance to stay in US for work.

No, I'd still stick to UCLA/Texas.....

Between those two, I honestly don't know.

wons wrote:(1) Given that you have never lived in the states - or lived abroad - I would strongly lean against Vandy as Nashville is provincial and may be the most difficult adjustment for you. The most important part of law school is getting good grades, and if you're comfortable, you will get better grades. I passed up Stanford for Columbia because my family was in New York and I thought it would be nice to have home-cooked meals during finals. I don't regret it.

(2) Between UCLA and UT is a more difficult decision. Both cities (in the case of UCLA, its specific part of LA) are terrific places to live. I think that including cost of living, you are right, UT will be cheaper. I also think you will feel less "poor" as a student in Austin, which is a glorified college town.
However, I would be somewhat concerned about how well you would interview at Texas firms as a Chinese national with no Western experience prior to law school. My hunch - and it's just a hunch - is that your background will "play" much better at LA firms (and even better at NY firms, to be honest).

(3) It is very difficult for someone with your background to develop the kind of super-fluency in American English necessary to become a litigator after 3 years in the United States. If you want to stay, your best bet -by far - is to focus on becoming a transactional lawyer. There is obviously a huge market for transactional lawyers who are Mandarin speakers and can relate to Chinese clients, and the kind of fluency necessary for drafting of transactional documents is much more easily attained by a non-native speaker than the fluency necessary to draft court pleadings.

(4) You should be working with a tutor or advisor as soon as you hit our shores to make sure your written fluency is good enough to get the grades you deserve on exams. Your student services department may be able to refer you to someone, or you may be able to find one of the many PhD students who tutor on the side to earn extra cash at major universities such as UT or UCLA. I think making sure that your written English is polished up by exam time is as essential as any of your legal studies, because there is nothing more frustrating than having an "A" level exam in your head but being unable to achieve the best grades because of a language barrier.

thank u so much for your post buddy!

(1) u r right. I myself are also more focused on the comparison between UCLA and UTexas.

(2) My only concern about LA is that the I might not be granted the 15k/yr scholarship in my 2nd and 3rd year, but I guess that's something I need to work out with shcool myself. and thank u so much for your advice about job interviews in these 2 different areas.

(3) I never dream about being a litigator, I'm fine being a transactional lawyer. And you r right, CHina-related legal work will be my best chance.

(4)I konw this is very important too. I am currently doing my internship in a British law frim's CHina office, and I am trying to read and talk more in English there, hope to improve my Legal English fluency.

Many thanks buddy

El Principe wrote:

zhifeixie wrote:

Lincoln wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

You can find total cost of attendance, including living expenses, on the schools' websites.

A note of caution: You should be aware that non-native English speakers often struggle in American law schools. The J.D. curriculum, the bar exam, and legal work are all heavily focused on reading and writing complicated materials. Although you will undoubtedly improve over the course of the three years, your ability to land a Big Law job is dependent on your performance at the beginning of the course of study. Given that none of these schools place over 50% of their class into Big Law jobs, the odds are against you even without any (real or perceived) language handicap.

I took the lsat twice, first one 168 and second one 171. GPA:3.44/4.00(but it's a CHina university grading) LSAC give me a Above Average grading.

Actually UMN also offered me full tuition waived schlarship. Do you whink that might be a better choice?it will be very cheap, though I know it also means basically no chance to stay in US for work.

No, I'd still stick to UCLA/Texas.....

Between those two, I honestly don't know.

It's really a tough choice!

wons wrote:One other thing: no matter where you end up, you should make as strong an effort as possible to befriend and socialize with as many Western classmates as possible. This is harder to do than it sounds - you will feel hugely tempted to socialize with fellow Chinese students because they will make you feel the most comfortable and they will relate to your experience and they speak your language.

But the more you hang out with Westerners in a social setting prior to interviewing with firms, the better you will interview. You will pick up on many more of the subtle social cues that you need to relate to your interviewer and make them certain that you will be able to integrate into a US workplace and deal appropriately with US clients.

FYI, my background is that I am midlevel associate at a US law firm and I have worked with and managed several Chinese associates. I'm giving you advice based upon landmines I've observed that have tripped up some of them, and anecdotes from the successful ones.

thank u for your information so much. I will try my best to blend in US society. I'm sure there's a lot that I can learn from u.

I say UCLA for potential regional advantages involved with being of Chinese origin, and cuz I like L.A. (you may not). Others, feel free to shoot me down if my first point is off base. Also, OP should probably do some sort of hardcore 0L prep. This might extend beyond Getting to Maybe and LEEWS. Any ideas?

This all really depends on where you want to live, which you don't seem to know. If I were in your position, I would be focusing on NYC, since that's where most of the biglaw jobs are. Did you apply to Cornell? With your numbers you should be able to get in there. That would give you the best shot at NYC. I wouldn't go to Vandy or UT in your situation. UCLA is a maybe.

whereskyle wrote:I say UCLA for potential regional advantages involved with being of Chinese origin, and cuz I like L.A. (you may not). Others, feel free to shoot me down if my first point is off base. Also, OP should probably do some sort of hardcore 0L prep. This might extend beyond Getting to Maybe and LEEWS. Any ideas?

thanks for the post buddy. and I know I definitely need to prepare. My original plan is to first decide where to attend and then ask students what classes I will have for 1L and what books I should read. During my free time in my internship, I will read some legal books written in English.
Andy recommendation on what books I should start reading now?

arklaw13 wrote:This all really depends on where you want to live, which you don't seem to know. If I were in your position, I would be focusing on NYC, since that's where most of the biglaw jobs are. Did you apply to Cornell? With your numbers you should be able to get in there. That would give you the best shot at NYC. I wouldn't go to Vandy or UT in your situation. UCLA is a maybe.

I did apply to Cornell, and like u, at the beginning of this cycle, looking back at the 2013-2014 cycle, I also thought Cornell will be a easy shot for me! But unfortunately competition has gotten a lot more fierce this year!!!!!! I got wl by duke cornell and northwestern. Gulc took me in but hasn't given me any $. And I can't afford any law school without sufficient scholarship, given that I need to reduce overall cost down to within 40k/year.

I'd go with UCLA.
I'm also an international, and I think what others have said here is true - you 'll have to target the west coast and NYC. Litigation is probably out.
Big firms have the means and will sponsor your H1B visa if you are bringing in what they want/need.

Unagi wrote:I'd go with UCLA.
I'm also an international, and I think what others have said here is true - you 'll have to target the west coast and NYC. Litigation is probably out.
Big firms have the means and will sponsor your H1B visa if you are bringing in what they want/need.

thanks so much buddy. I'm fine with being a paperwork lawyer. but currently my biggest concern is where to start my legal education.

Hi, also Chinese international student here and I think it's better to stay in cities for us - cities offer more opportunities throughout the school year and you can take advantage of them during 2L and 3L. It's hard but that's the only way to make up our language and culture disadvantage in the competition.

Honestly, I don't know exactly where UCLA and UTexas are - I know the big metropolitan areas but not sure if they are close to cities, yeah I know I'm stupid but only thought of schools on the east coast hehe. Anyway, when I applied to schools I mainly considered location and the type of work I want to do. You probably want to balance it out.

Feel free to msg me. I've been through the culture shock and writing struggling during my first semester in college. It's tough but it would be way much easier if you talk to someone who experienced it before. I didn't so it too me a while to catch up.

Good luck!

I'd say UCLA. I'm from Texas and I like to promote UT, but I think you'll have a much easier time networking at UCLA because of the larger Chinese community there. If you got to UT, your best bet is to go to for employment would be Houston, which has the largest Chinatown in the state (and probably the South). I'm not saying regular Americans will not work with you, but your background will help you get the foot in the door at Pacific based firms.

If being around LOTS of Chinese and Taiwanese is important to you, then UCLA is the choice. Without question

Also, UCLA has a better reputation in Asia than the other schools you mentioned.

agree UCLA from this list. if any of the T14s admit you off WL with enough $$, I'd definitely jump at that instead. also agree that transactional is your best bet, and UCLA is in the best market for that of the three (plus seriously target NYC).

I'm surprised at the WLs, I'd think it's a seller's market for LSAT scores...

rion91 wrote:I'd say UCLA. I'm from Texas and I like to promote UT, but I think you'll have a much easier time networking at UCLA because of the larger Chinese community there. If you got to UT, your best bet is to go to for employment would be Houston, which has the largest Chinatown in the state (and probably the South). I'm not saying regular Americans will not work with you, but your background will help you get the foot in the door at Pacific based firms.

Thanks buddy! I got no problem about staying in Houston, if it's not difficult to find a job there. ALso I heard someone say that making 160K in NY is basically the same as making 100k in Texas, because there's no taxes. Is that right?

Also you mentioned networking, and as the friends above say, I should hang out more with US locals. DO u think it will be easier for me to network with locals in LA than with the locals in texas? SOrry this question might sound offensive, but I don't mean that. I am just curious and puzzled.

BruinRegents wrote:If being around LOTS of Chinese and Taiwanese is important to you, then UCLA is the choice. Without question

Also, UCLA has a better reputation in Asia than the other schools you mentioned.

Well it's not really important to me. I have no problem being the minority in the school. Like I have said, overall costs and chances of finding big law jobs are more of my concern.

And I agree with u that UCLA definitely helps more if I end up going back to CHina. However, the goal is to try to stay in US if I can, and I wonder which is better if I wanna stay in US for work, UCLA or UTexas?