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UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:24 pm
by applyinglate
Hi,
I’m looking to make as much money as possible in a ten-year mark after graduation. So be it big-law or not.
I have a full ride at UF, and sticker at Cornell at the moment, which do you think would be the best option?
Again, this solely about money, and I don’t care if it is working biglaw or not (obviously, lets not speculate to me winning the lotto, or starting my own practice, because I won’t do either).
Thank you for your time.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:25 pm
by patogordo
do you want to work in florida
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:27 pm
by applyinglate
patogordo wrote:do you want to work in florida
I don't really care the place where I end up working as long as the buying power is right.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:28 pm
by patogordo
okay are you from florida then? it will be hard to get a job out of UF w/ no ties to florida.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:29 pm
by applyinglate
patogordo wrote:okay are you from florida then? it will be hard to get a job out of UF w/ no ties to florida.
Im from Florida. I do have ties here but they are low paying (60k starting) legal jobs.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:49 pm
by Law Sauce
Any calculation on a ten year horizon has to account for all kinds of risks that are impossible to quantify.
If you can pay off your student loans in 4 or 5 years in big law from cornell, you might be able to catch up to your cumulative payoff from FL within ten years, but who knows what you are doing with either degree that far down the road. As far as payout preference, do you want your payout to be like an annuity (for QoL reasons) or is it ok to be backloaded (and net worth at the end is all that matters)?
Is total COA free at FL (as in living for free as well)? If so, I'd personally probably go that route, but you risk no job at all.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:57 pm
by applyinglate
Law Sauce wrote:Any calculation on a ten year horizon has to account for all kinds of risks that are impossible to quantify.
If you can pay off your student loans in 4 or 5 years in big law from cornell, you might be able to catch up to your cumulative payoff from FL within ten years, but who knows what you are doing with either degree that far down the road. As far as payout preference, do you want your payout to be like an annuity (for QoL reasons) or is it ok to be backloaded (and net worth at the end is all that matters)?
Is total COA free at FL (as in living for free as well)? If so, I'd personally probably go that route, much easier and less stressful.
Completely free (no living expenses or anything, really).
That makes sense. I think annuity is very important as that opens the door to the possibility of investments.
Would it be easier to speculate as to 5 years instead of 10? I understand this is difficult, but these two schools options are very different in several aspects, including cost and opportunity.
Also, as far as I understand a reasonable time in biglaw would be 3 years or so, as that seems to be the magic number of either a. being fired; or b. being burned out.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:58 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Over the long run, who knows, but I'd imagine in the short term that UF > Cornell, assuming you can find a job. From Cornell you could probably snag Big Law in NYC, but the debt payments and higher cost of living will basically cancel out the higher salary, not to mention the misery.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:58 pm
by patogordo
UF is easy choice at $0 w/ florida ties.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:59 pm
by jbagelboy
Are you going to be loaning the entire cost of Cornell?
If you are comfortable with the prospect of working 75 hrs/wk in a large firm fo 5+ years with life-ruining debt as the alternative, I think Cornell is actually TCR. You'll be poor for the next 8 years, but then you can slowly claw your way to middle/upper-middle class by the 10 year out mark, if the grind hasn't driven you to the looney house before then.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:02 pm
by applyinglate
jbagelboy wrote:Are you going to be loaning the entire cost of Cornell?
If you are comfortable with the prospect of working 75 hrs/wk in a large firm fo 5+ years with life-ruining debt as the alternative, I think Cornell is actually TCR. You'll be poor for the next 8 years, but then you can slowly claw your way to middle/upper-middle class by the 10 year out mark, if the grind hasn't driven you to the looney house before then.
Yes, the entire cost.
Very comfortable (if that even makes sense) with working 75 hours a week. As my current job consists of the same amount of hours, less stressful though (think paralegal at midsize prestigious-wannabe firm).
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:03 pm
by applyinglate
patogordo wrote:UF is easy choice at $0 w/ florida ties.
Why is that?
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:07 pm
by patogordo
applyinglate wrote:patogordo wrote:UF is easy choice at $0 w/ florida ties.
Why is that?
the cost difference is ludicrous. even in the best case scenario you're paying like $500k plus for a better shot at a job that you're like to last 2-3 years at, max, and you'll probably end up having to target NYC w/ a much higher COL than many places in florida. go to UF for free, drop out if your 1L grades suck.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:11 pm
by nebula666
making 60k starting from UF would be considered a good outcome. You likely won't be in the top ~15% that land biglaw/fed clerk gigs so you really shouldn't bank on that.
If you are realistic about your job prospects after graduating, go to UF.
If you want to work biglaw in NYC, go to Cornell and bite the bullet on sticker price.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:15 pm
by patogordo
i'd rather make 60k/yr for 10 yrs with no debt than 160k/yr for 3 yrs, followed by god knows what for 7 yrs, while paying >500k to loans.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:15 pm
by applyinglate
patogordo wrote:applyinglate wrote:patogordo wrote:UF is easy choice at $0 w/ florida ties.
Why is that?
the cost difference is ludicrous. even in the best case scenario you're paying like $500k plus for a better shot at a job that you're like to last 2-3 years at, max, and you'll probably end up having to target NYC w/ a much higher COL than many places in florida. go to UF for free, drop out if your 1L grades suck.
I understand that the initial investment to go to Cornell is much higher and I agree with your reasoning as a whole. However, what about after year 5? Will the difference in salary start to grow the further we look into the future? I just don’t want to be shortsighted here.
Thanks to you all providing feedback, I appreciate your time.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:20 pm
by applyinglate
nebula666 wrote:1. making 60k starting from UF would be considered a good outcome. You likely won't be in the top ~15% that land biglaw/fed clerk gigs so you really shouldn't bank on that.
2. If you are realistic about your job prospects after graduating, go to UF.
3. If you want to work biglaw in NYC, go to Cornell and bite the bullet on sticker price.
1. You think 60k is reasonable for a UF graduate? Most employees at my contact graduated from UM and T3/4… Not sure if there would likely be a difference.
2. I’m trying to be as realistic as possible.
3. What benefits would there be to work in biglaw in NYC and go sticker at Cornell if I would in the end, make less money? – I’m only talking about capital-wise.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:21 pm
by banjo
I'd retake for money at a T14. Cornell at sticker is really for wealthy families.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:22 pm
by patogordo
the further into the future you look, the less important your salary should be to you today, and the less your salary will have to do with what school you went to. yes there is some path dependence but the biglaw-> great exit options route isn't nearly as clear cut as people make it sound. you may leave law altogether after biglaw and still have quite a bit of debt remaining.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:23 pm
by applyinglate
banjo wrote:I'd retake for money at a T14. Cornell at sticker is really for wealthy families.
I see.
Would there be any point in discussing prices with Cornell using UF's fortunate scholarship as a leverage?
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:25 pm
by applyinglate
patogordo wrote:the further into the future you look, the less important your salary should be to you today, and the less your salary will have to do with what school you went to. yes there is some path dependence but the biglaw-> great exit options route isn't nearly as clear cut as people make it sound. you may leave law altogether after biglaw and still have quite a bit of debt remaining.
I can’t really quit law as a whole, as my bachelors is useless. But regardless, would the same not apply to midsize law as well?
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:26 pm
by rad lulz
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Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:28 pm
by rwhyAn
applyinglate wrote:nebula666 wrote:1. making 60k starting from UF would be considered a good outcome. You likely won't be in the top ~15% that land biglaw/fed clerk gigs so you really shouldn't bank on that.
2. If you are realistic about your job prospects after graduating, go to UF.
3. If you want to work biglaw in NYC, go to Cornell and bite the bullet on sticker price.
1. You think 60k is reasonable for a UF graduate? Most employees at my contact graduated from UM and T3/4… Not sure if there would likely be a difference.
2. I’m trying to be as realistic as possible.
3. What benefits would there be to work in biglaw in NYC and go sticker at Cornell if I would in the end, make less money? – I’m only talking about capital-wise.
At Cornell sticker, these are the payments you're looking at:
Approximate total payments (10-year level payments) monthly $3,525 total $423,004
Approximate total payments (25-year level payments) monthly $2,208 total $662,382
While Cornell might have a bigger upside, it's worst case scenario is truly horrific. Personally, I'd vote UF. If you miss biglaw at Cornell, you're in a world of hurt. Even if you get biglaw, how do you know if you'll like it or how long you'll last?
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:28 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
You may want to add a "Retake the LSAT" option in your poll. No one is going to recommend Cornell at sticker. UF for free seems like a good option if you are okay with staying in FL.
Re: UF free vs Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:30 pm
by applyinglate
rad lulz wrote:patogordo wrote:applyinglate wrote:patogordo wrote:UF is easy choice at $0 w/ florida ties.
Why is that?
the cost difference is ludicrous. even in the best case scenario you're paying like $500k plus for a better shot at a job that you're like to last 2-3 years at, max, and you'll probably end up having to target NYC w/ a much higher COL than many places in florida. go to UF for free, drop out if your 1L grades suck.
This or retake for money at t14
Cornell sticker is ludicrously expensive
That makes sense, so really, the options come down to:
1. I take a year off, for the possibility of retaking and possibly scoring higher. This could definitely be a good alternative, given that I do score higher. If I don’t, I lost a year’s worth of salary just to be back on the same position that I’m in right now.
2. Go to UF for free and work on or about 60k salary for the next 10 years.
3. Go to Cornell, hope to get biglaw and last more than 5 years.
Most of you seem to think that either 1 or 2 are better choices, I just wanted to confirm that this is correct?