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Haven't been on this place in like forever and I know we have way too many HLS v SLS threads but I think my situation is different from most so I would really appreciate any feedback on this dilemma.

Just got a really nicely worded ding mail from Dean Rangappa, so I don't have the easy option to default to YLS (but in all honesty, I got mugged last time I was in New Haven for a debate tournament so I would not go back there in a million years even if it is for Yale - please ignore my sour grape talking)

Have similar aid offer from both schools (~$20,000/yr assuming my family's financial situation does not change dramatically over the course of my study) and a Hamilton, but I am mostly certain that I will not be attending CLS because I am foreign so the CLS brand doesn't work nearly as well if I decide to go back to my home country up north.

I am not interested in VC, IP, nor in academia, and I cannot be an A3 clerk due to citizenship so the biggest professional edge offered by SLS does not have any bearing in this situation. I want to work in antitrust and tax and I feel SLS and HLS would give me very similar opportunities in those areas for private practice.

SLS is much closer to home and there are direct flights so I could visit my family on a more regular basis, most flights from boston to where i am at are routed through Chicago and takes 7.5 hours in air Climate isn't a big problem but SLS really seems ideal with its small classes, I went to a huge university and although I enjoyed my experience there, I really would love a change in the environment. On the other hand, I want to practice in NY and HLS would satiate my east coast dream, after living your whole life west of the Rockies, the cultural dynamic here is just a bit undesirable for me - at least on the east coast when an invitation says formal attires only, they actually mean you have to go in with ties. I also really loved Harvard, the feeling of the law school, and Cambridge during ASW but I made the strongest connection with another student who is set on SLS if he gets in so I am not sure whether SLS or HLS might be a better fit for my personality.

So, in summary, SLS looks close to perfect on paper especially with its small class size but emotionally Harvard just appeals to me. Any feedback would be extremely appreciated, thanks for reading such a long rambling.

You should consider Columbia more seriously. It sounds like you're going to start your career in NYC biglaw and when you do you'll really appreciate the much smaller loan payments you'll be making as a CLS grad.

Tiago Splitter wrote:You should consider Columbia more seriously. It sounds like you're going to start your career in NYC biglaw and when you do you'll really appreciate the much smaller loan payments you'll be making as a CLS grad.

Thanks for the above, but the big problem I have with CLS is that from what I have heard, it would be much easier to go back to Canada with an HYS degree and if one wants to work internationally, HLS is golden. Plus the aid packages from both H and S are quite generous so the difference is something that I feel I can swallow.

I'm a little skeptical that Columbia will hold you back when you return to Canada, especially if you're going to work at a firm first (instead of starting the NCA process immediately). You should ask the folks on lawstudents.ca if there's any merit to what you heard.

20 k a year financial is not generous bro. Keep in mind both schools will take into account summer earnings your 2L summer after a certain threshold which on a biglaw salary is likely to be around 14k they expect you to contribute. That means you'll only get 6k your last year. 46k over 3 years. 225k in the hole doesn't sound too generous. The fact that you have no interest in academia and can't clerk basically nullify any practical advantage HS have over C.

If you have no other source of aid (parents/savings) CLS wins by a landslide imo.

banjo wrote:I'm a little skeptical that Columbia will hold you back when you return to Canada, especially if you're going to work at a firm first (instead of starting the NCA process immediately). You should ask the folks on lawstudents.ca if there's any merit to what you heard.

Thanks, I should make a post there.

Am I crazy to think someone who wants to work in New York should take the full scholarship at Columbia?

It should be noted that a new thread pops up daily about someone who's depressed because they're stuck in BigLaw and completely at the mercy of the machine because they elected to take on soul-crushing debt. What we don't see is an abundance of people crying because they didn't have doors opened to them because they attended the #4 school in the entire nation on full scholarship.

Is it really that much more difficult to get back to Canada from Columbia? If you want NYC big law a full-ride at Columbia seems like the clear #1.

Just got a really nicely worded ding mail from Dean Rangappa

If you don't mind me asking, what time/date did you get it?

drawstring wrote:Is it really that much more difficult to get back to Canada from Columbia? If you want NYC big law a full-ride at Columbia seems like the clear #1.

Just got a really nicely worded ding mail from Dean Rangappa

If you don't mind me asking, what time/date did you get it?

Sometime today in the morning (PST). I don't have the email anymore so I can't give you the exact time, sorry.

I think you should go to HLS because if this is even a question for you, you have some huge irrational Harvard boner that will cause you to always regret it and wonder "what if" if you don't go there.

Similar position here. For you though, without question, take CLS. You want biglaw, you want NYC. This is the only scenario where I would even consider CLS over SLS and HLS.

I'm pretty sure at either of the three schools you could be comatose for 3 years and still end up with big law in NYC earning $160k. Why pay an extra $220k to get to that goal?

Stanford

Congrats on your great choices!

CLS wins here. We have tons of Canadians (even a Canadian club!) and they universally disagree with you that the name doesn't carry. It's probably a little more geographic; people/firms in Toronto and Montreal know Harvard and Columbia better, whereas maybe in Vancouver Stanford has a larger sphere of influence (whatever these arbitrary drivers are worth). Have you actually spoken with Canadian firms about this? Besides, as others have mentioned you'll probably be starting in NYC.

CLS has huge tax people, and the best large firm numbers in the country. It's the perfect place to start the career you are looking for. If you wanted to work for the feds or in public service, I'd say Harvard could be worth the difference, but since you aren't a citizen and literally can't take those positions out of school, your rationale is simply wrong, and you'll regret the debt.

Re: international presence, the most magic circle firms recruit at CLS, the newly appointed 2nd head of UN office of legal counsel is a CLS grad, the US attorney general is a CLS grad, ect. Not much to worry about on the recognition front.

Then again, if you have loaded parents and a boner for perceptions of prestige from usnwr, go to HLS and don't look back. It's not like anyone would judge you for going to Harvard.

I am a little confused. If you want to practice in NY, as you state, why are you at all concerned about how much reach a CLS degree would have back in Canada? If you really do want to practice in NY, CLS w/ a Hamilton seems like by far the best choice.

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Thanks everyone for the great comments, I am definitely starting to lean towards CLS, but I will try to negotiate more aid from H and S first. Aside from this, I heard that apart from the H/P/LP grading scheme, harvard also gives DS and I am just wondering what does that grade entail?

hcrimson2014 wrote:Thanks everyone for the great comments, I am definitely starting to lean towards CLS, but I will try to negotiate more aid from H and S first. Aside from this, I heard that apart from the H/P/LP grading scheme, harvard also gives DS and I am just wondering what does that grade entail?

DS is like an A/A+. It seems to count for 5 GPA points, and it's technically discretionary but most profs use it for the top few students. You should have a few of them (more than your P's) if you want to clerk for a feeder COA judge. I guess you can think of it like A/A-/B+/B, except LP's aren't given out with anything near the frequency of B's.

Two things for OP -
1) You can be paid to clerk in AK, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico.
2) You can still clerk in the continental US, but you'd have to pay your way for the year.

If all you want to do is work in biglaw, then Columbia is a no brainer.