Top Law Schools

Brooklyn law 2 year program offering 42k a year with 80% stip- COA: 70k
St. Johns 3 years offering 45k a year with 40% stip- COA: 15K

Commute is a factor, I live in Queens and it would take me 5 min to get to SJU and about an hour to Brooklyn. I have to decide on Brooklyn within the next few days.

My stats are 2.9 GPA
149/158 LSAT

40 percent stip is terrible, no way you should do that

can you retake the lsat

lakers180 wrote:40 percent stip is terrible, no way you should do that

can you retake the lsat

I don't want to wait another year to start school, I already took the LSAT twice.

Negotiate for a better GPA stipulation from SJs. Then revisit.

Negotiate with Brooklyn too. They've gone from 80% to no stip in the past.

Your leverage is not going -- and these schools need you more than you need them.

I wouldn't go to either of these law schools if my plan was to be gainfully employed as a lawyer.

What's your plan?

SJU won't negotiate. In the process of negotiating Brooklyn.

Not necessarily big law, probably eventual self employment-but I'm not sure.

francey wrote:SJU won't negotiate. In the process of negotiating Brooklyn.

Not necessarily big law, probably eventual self employment-but I'm not sure.

Big law definitely won't happen if you're a mere mortal.

If you have a (well thought out) plan to work for a small firm/solo I guess just go to whichever is cheaper.

BigZuck wrote:

francey wrote:SJU won't negotiate. In the process of negotiating Brooklyn.

Not necessarily big law, probably eventual self employment-but I'm not sure.

Big law definitely won't happen if you're a mere mortal.

If you have a (well thought out) plan to work for a small firm/solo I guess just go to whichever is cheaper.

It's hard to tell which is really cheaper with the stipulations in play. I have no idea what it's like to stay in the top 40% in law school.

francey wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

francey wrote:SJU won't negotiate. In the process of negotiating Brooklyn.

Not necessarily big law, probably eventual self employment-but I'm not sure.

Big law definitely won't happen if you're a mere mortal.

If you have a (well thought out) plan to work for a small firm/solo I guess just go to whichever is cheaper.

It's hard to tell which is really cheaper with the stipulations in play. I have no idea what it's like to stay in the top 40% in law school.

If you go to that law school and you don't make that mark you just drop out after the first year and only have 5K debt. No biggie.

I would try to get the stip lowered first of course.

BigZuck wrote:

francey wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

francey wrote:SJU won't negotiate. In the process of negotiating Brooklyn.

Not necessarily big law, probably eventual self employment-but I'm not sure.

Big law definitely won't happen if you're a mere mortal.

If you have a (well thought out) plan to work for a small firm/solo I guess just go to whichever is cheaper.

It's hard to tell which is really cheaper with the stipulations in play. I have no idea what it's like to stay in the top 40% in law school.

If you go to that law school and you don't make that mark you just drop out after the first year and only have 5K debt. No biggie.

I would try to get the stip lowered first of course.

I tried but no luck, it'd be a total waste of time and money if I just dropped out because of that..

francey wrote: I tried but no luck, it'd be a total waste of time and money if I just dropped out because of that..

It would be bigger waste of time and money if you did not drop out after losing it.

Gooner91 wrote:

francey wrote: I tried but no luck, it'd be a total waste of time and money if I just dropped out because of that..

It would be bigger waste of time and money if you did not drop out after losing it.

Right

I mean, in the interest of full disclosure, both of these schools have a greater chance of being a big waste of time and money than they do of getting you a lawyer job.

Are you URM? These are big scholarships for your numbers.

Don't take your advice from people who are us news rankings snobs. Becoming a Lawyer in NY is a lot different than a lot of other places. If you go to Brooklyn or St Johns and do really well in school you will have big law opportunities. I've met with and spoken to SO many alumni and partners at firms in the NY area and that is the impression I get. If you are planning on going to law school and just coasting you shouldn't be going to law school anyway. If you don't want to work really really hard don't go to St Johns. St Johns is only a good choice with full scholarship if you were planning to work your butt off and get in the top 10-20 students in the year. Then you can get the big law successful job you are hoping for. Otherwise go to Brooklyn, you might not get into one of the top 5 law firms in the country straight from there but you will have opportunities to get good jobs.

Also what makes you want the 2 year program? The 2 year program is supposed to be really good at Brooklyn because they do a full 3 years credits. With this in mind though its going to be twice as hard to get awesome grades and twice as hard to put the time in you need to get the good jobs.

No matter where you go to school (of course unless your goal is to spend all the money in the world and years mastering the LSAT and go somewhere like Yale/NYU) the most important things you can do is get awesome grades, take your internships seriously and network like crazy.

This is advice that was given to me by a couple of big time lawyers, which I think weighs a lot more than what you've gotten so far. Don't take advice from random people on the internet (yes I see the irony of this statement), go and get connected with partners and other lawyers in NY who do what you are looking to do (the schools that are trying to recruit you will probably be willing to help you with this) and ask them what they think of your plans.

Retake or don't go.

PepperJack wrote:Are you URM? These are big scholarships for your numbers.

Nope, I'm asian, dont think that counts as URM.

imapanda wrote:Don't take your advice from people who are us news rankings snobs. Becoming a Lawyer in NY is a lot different than a lot of other places. If you go to Brooklyn or St Johns and do really well in school you will have big law opportunities. I've met with and spoken to SO many alumni and partners at firms in the NY area and that is the impression I get. If you are planning on going to law school and just coasting you shouldn't be going to law school anyway. If you don't want to work really really hard don't go to St Johns. St Johns is only a good choice with full scholarship if you were planning to work your butt off and get in the top 10-20 students in the year. Then you can get the big law successful job you are hoping for. Otherwise go to Brooklyn, you might not get into one of the top 5 law firms in the country straight from there but you will have opportunities to get good jobs.

Also what makes you want the 2 year program? The 2 year program is supposed to be really good at Brooklyn because they do a full 3 years credits. With this in mind though its going to be twice as hard to get awesome grades and twice as hard to put the time in you need to get the good jobs.

No matter where you go to school (of course unless your goal is to spend all the money in the world and years mastering the LSAT and go somewhere like Yale/NYU) the most important things you can do is get awesome grades, take your internships seriously and network like crazy.

This is advice that was given to me by a couple of big time lawyers, which I think weighs a lot more than what you've gotten so far. Don't take advice from random people on the internet (yes I see the irony of this statement), go and get connected with partners and other lawyers in NY who do what you are looking to do (the schools that are trying to recruit you will probably be willing to help you with this) and ask them what they think of your plans.

Thanks for the positive words..I want to do Brooklyn 2 year to just get school over with and get into work. That's also 1 year ahead for myself to look for jobs and network outside of school..

BigZuck wrote:

Gooner91 wrote:

francey wrote: I tried but no luck, it'd be a total waste of time and money if I just dropped out because of that..

It would be bigger waste of time and money if you did not drop out after losing it.

Right

I mean, in the interest of full disclosure, both of these schools have a greater chance of being a big waste of time and money than they do of getting you a lawyer job.

gee thanks..

d

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

then all those that are currently in brooklyn and sju are just wasting their time and money?

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

I think she bumped it up to a 158. But yeah, the smartest thing would be to retake and go to a school with better job prospects. Neither of these at the current price are the worst decisions, but definitely drop out if you lose the scholarship. If you are below median at these schools and in massive debt it can ruin your life.

francey wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

then all those that are currently in brooklyn and sju are just wasting their time and money?

Not all of them, but more than half

francey wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

then all those that are currently in brooklyn and sju are just wasting their time and money?

Not all but a lot of them are. LST will give you a good idea of how many.

francey wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

then all those that are currently in brooklyn and sju are just wasting their time and money?

Sorry, I didn't see where you had retaken and gotten a 158. My bad.

Anyway, not ALL of them, no. A handful will probably be okay.* It's a small minority, though. It's like asking, "Oh, so everyone buying lotto tickets is wasting their money?" Yeah, sure, there'll be a few lucky winners, but for the vast majority it's a waste of time and money.

*By "okay" I mean either graduate with zero debt or find a job that will allow them to make their loan payments without living in a grime tunnel and eating rats.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

francey wrote:
gee thanks..

I assume you're being sarcastic here, but you shouldn't disregard this. He's right; going to either school is likely going to mean that you struggle for legal employment. There are basically no scenarios where going to law school with a 149 makes any sense.

then all those that are currently in brooklyn and sju are just wasting their time and money?

Sorry, I didn't see where you had retaken and gotten a 158. My bad.

Anyway, not ALL of them, no. A handful will probably be okay.* It's a small minority, though. It's like asking, "Oh, so everyone buying lotto tickets is wasting their money?" Yeah, sure, there'll be a few lucky winners, but for the vast majority it's a waste of time and money.

*By "okay" I mean either graduate with zero debt or find a job that will allow them to make their loan payments without living in a grime tunnel and eating rats.

fair enough, but i have pretty decent scholarship to both schools. i just dont know if i should risk the 40% stip at sju (which would leave me with 15k in debt after 3 years, if i maintain)
or 80% stip at brooklyn (leaving me at 40k in debt after 2 years)

Personally, I think you should retake the LSAT. You already jumped 9 points on a retake. Do it again and you'll have much, much better options. Your GPA will still hold you back, but at least you'll be looking at full rides without stips. What do you want to do with a law degree, btw?