Duke or Virginia, or shoot for HYSCCN next year? Forum

[natural_law]

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[Law Sauce]

Reapply into earlier in the cycle would probably get you better options than a last minute application. But YHS with a 2.6 is almost impossible.

[natural_law]

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[Mack.Hambleton]

assuming non-URM, the only one of HYSCCN you have a chance at would be NYU, and even then probably at sticker or close to sticker.

[Pulsar]

Transferring from UVA, Duke, or another T10 won't be worth it in many circumstances. If 1L goes well then you'll likely have a great shot at OCI at your T10 anyway, and if you are looking at clerkships then transferring will disadvantage you in the sense that you'll lose any profs who might have recommended you during your 1L year, and you won't have time during 2L to make new relationships before the most competitive clerkships are already taken.

So whether you go this year or next year, don't plan on transferring. Make friends and relationships and enjoy whatever school you end up at. There might be a few good reasons to transfer from T10 to HYS (ex: maybe you hate it at your T10, geographic/family reasons, wanting to be an academic or some other niche goal, etc.) but simple prestige-climbing probably isn't one of them.

[sasquatchsam]

Someone from my alma mater got into Yale with a 2.6/178 two years ago. I'm also not thinking about trying for HYS directly; I don't have the grades; I want to transfer in.

I will reapply next cycle if I don't get into Duke or Virginia.

This may have happened but it is extremely unlikely that Yale will admit anyone under a 3.0 GPA. Last year they didn't accept anyone with less than a 3.5 GPA and only three people with a GPA less than 3.75. https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/ ... px?sid=177

There is not a lot of data on mylsn.info for people with your numbers but it seems to suggest that Northwestern is by far your best option in the T14. I think you have a shot at UVA and Duke but it is not a great shot. You should be prepared to ride the waitlist wherever you apply in the T14 besides maybe Northwestern and Georgetown.

[aboutmydaylight]

Hi guys and gals,

This is the story; I took the December LSAT and scored well below my 174 average (165). I also have a weak GPA, 2.6 (3.35 in my Psychology major; from a top undergraduate college), for various reasons, which I explain in my application. So I was expecting to get work experience to strengthen an application for the 2015 cycle. Then I scored a 178 on the February LSAT, and I figured that was about the minimum score I could proceed with for a 2014 application to offset my GPA. So I've finished putting together my application, but the only places that will still take a look at it are Duke and Virginia.

Let's assume that I get into either Duke or Virginia. I don't need you to tell me those are great schools - I know they are - but I am set on trying to get into HYS. Is there any data out there on transfers from Duke or Virginia to HYS (I've been looking but can't find anything)? I realize that my chances are very slim at getting into HYS in 2015, but the other thing to consider is that I would much prefer to go to Columbia or NYU than Duke or Virginia (although my chances at CN are not much better than HYS).

I'm leaning towards applying to Duke and Virginia this cycle, and going if I get in, with an eye to transferring to HYS (I will get the grades to transfer, but I'm assuming that that is no guarantee considering the limited places). But that would rule out having a stab at Columbia or New York, where I would prefer to spend three years of my life if transferring to HYS doesn't work out. I should also mention that I am 60:40 in favour of attending law school this cycle compared to in the 2015 cycle.

Thoughts? Data on where transfer students to HYS come from would be greatly appreciated.

You have a slim to none chance at HYSCCN with a 2.6 if we're being realistic. You also have a slim chance of transferring into HYS. You're most likely stuck with what you get. Someone will likely bite at a 178 but you won't know who, and its too late in the cycle to apply broadly enough as a splitter. I'd wait out the cycle and take the T14 that gives you the most (if any?) money next year.

[03152016]

assuming non-URM, the only one of HYSCCN you have a chance at would be NYU, and even then probably at sticker or close to sticker.

NYU is out too, I wouldn't waste the app fee. http://mylsn.info/i5sjos/

[natural_law]

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[06102016]

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[natural_law]

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[aboutmydaylight]

TLS has an amazing habit of answering questions you aren't asking and telling you how long the odds are.

Realistically, someone with my numbers got into Yale from my school. I realize that I have very slim chances at CCN, say a 10 per cent chance at each (the numbers I've seen are actually 22 per cent, not 10); that's a 27 per cent chance at T6, not including the one in a million at HYS. You might call a 27 per cent chance "very slim" - I don't. Maybe I play too much poker. But this isn't what I was even asking about.

My main question (I realize I didn't highlight it enough for people to get past the, "Oh man, you're not going to get into HYSCCN with a 2.6" knee-jerk response) is about transferring to HYS from Duke or Virginia; I have a niche reason to do so. I am looking for data on transfer students to HYS. Can anyone help me out on that front?

You have a much lower chance than 10% at CCN I don't know where you're actually pulling these numbers out from. These schools will rarely ever dip below 3.0. The fact that someone from your alma mater was the exception has no baring on your chances.

You also have a very low chance at transferring so you should proceed on the assumption that you wont.

http://www.law.stanford.edu/facts/enrol ... tion-rates
http://www.law.harvard.edu/about/requir ... sures.html
http://www.law.yale.edu/about/ABAinfo.htm

Stanford had 10 transfers in 2012-2013. Yale had 13 transfers in. Harvard had 34. These are from ANY law school. You likely aren't going to be in the top 50 or so transfer applicants and going to a school you don't even want to be at assuming you will be is a recipe for failure.

Duke had 1 transfer OUT if you look at the ABA/LSAC annual report. Virginia had 3. These are transfers out to ANY school, not HYS. Your chances are very very small but they're going to be the same from most schools.

https://law.duke.edu/about/consumerinformation/
https://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/aba.htm

[juzam_djinn]

TLS has an amazing habit of answering questions you aren't asking and telling you how long the odds are.

Realistically, someone with my numbers got into Yale from my school. I realize that I have very slim chances at CCN, say a 10 per cent chance at each (the numbers I've seen are actually 22 per cent, not 10); that's a 27 per cent chance at T6, not including the one in a million at HYS. You might call a 27 per cent chance "very slim" - I don't. Maybe I play too much poker. But this isn't what I was even asking about.

My main question (I realize I didn't highlight it enough for people to get past the, "Oh man, you're not going to get into HYSCCN with a 2.6" knee-jerk response) is about transferring to HYS from Duke or Virginia; I have a niche reason to do so. I am looking for data on transfer students to HYS. Can anyone help me out on that front?

this is a really nasty tone to take when you're asking for help

but to answer your question: You're going to have to be at least top 10% from Duke or UVA to have a realistic shot at getting into H, and at least top 5% to have a realistic shot at getting into YS. any personal reasons/softs cannot be relied upon to overcome a lower than 5/10% rank (yes, they might help, but don't bet on it).

anecdotally, there have been people who got into HYS with lower GPA/ranks than the ones I listed. Those are anecdotes though, just like how you have an anecdote about someone getting into Y from your school with a sub 3.0. You can't assume or even hope you'll be the one to beat the long odds.

as a potentially helpful tip, I've been monitoring transfer data for a while, and I think your chances are slightly improved if you go to a T14 with a higher median GPA. It will only be a slight help, but the higher your gpa looks on paper, the better it looks to adcoms I bet, even if it corresponds to the exact same rank as someone from a school with lower medians. this is only off some things i've noticed though, def no heavy research went into it

[03152016]

TLS has an amazing habit of answering questions you aren't asking and telling you how long the odds are.

Realistically, someone with my numbers got into Yale from my school. I realize that I have very slim chances at CCN, say a 10 per cent chance at each (the numbers I've seen are actually 22 per cent, not 10); that's a 27 per cent chance at T6, not including the one in a million at HYS. You might call a 27 per cent chance "very slim" - I don't. Maybe I play too much poker. But this isn't what I was even asking about.

My main question (I realize I didn't highlight it enough for people to get past the, "Oh man, you're not going to get into HYSCCN with a 2.6" knee-jerk response) is about transferring to HYS from Duke or Virginia; I have a niche reason to do so. I am looking for data on transfer students to HYS. Can anyone help me out on that front?

You are fooling yourself. You do not have a 10% chance of getting into CCN. Searching LSN for sub-3.0 GPAs, 1 out 121 applicants got Columbia, 1 out of 121 applicants got Chicago, and 0 out of 99 applicants got NYU. Further, the person who got into Yale with your numbers got there for a reason; maybe they did something of national importance, or have ungodly connections. But in no way were they a remotely competitive candidate numbers-wise. Unless you have something amazing up your sleeve that I don't know about, I see NU in your future.

[d cooper]

The sub-3.0 Yale acceptance was URM and legacy. You might as well apply this cycle (CCN down since you're optimistic), but next cycle will give you better results. Even UVA or Duke will be an uphill battle.

[aboutmydaylight]

FYI only 3 people transferred out of NU last year so good luck.

[d cooper]

57 people transferred into YHS last year total. If I had to quantify your transfer chances it'd be approaching 0%.

[03152016]

It's sort of like saying, "I'm looking at two top schools for physics, and I want to choose whichever one gives me the best shot at becoming an astronaut. By the way, I flunked math and science."

The reason you're not getting good answers is because the question is flawed.

[Gooner91]

OP have you checked your chances with using an ED at one of the mid t14?

[daleearnhardt123]

OP: You do realize that your question can't be answered without an assessment of your HYSCCN chances, right?

Hanging your hat on a HYS acceptance is pretty foolish. the fact that one 2.6/178 got in to Yale by no means indicates that you will. As someone else pointed out, it looks like that person was BOTH a URM and a Legacy. So, best of luck. Maybe you'll find that a Rhodes scholar has pulled it off int he past too (though, hard to see how a Rhodes scholar would have a 2.6, but whatever).

I'm personally not as pessimistic about your chances at CCN as some people here are. The data on your #s is just rare, so the sample sizes on mylsn (which often include NO ONE that really has your numbers) just don't tell us much. I think there's a decent chance that at least one of those 3 jumps at your LSAT. But, really, they probably aren't going to give you money.

If either Duke or UVA will take you this year, I don't see why you shouldn't go. a SHOT at CCN without money isn't really worth waiting a year on if UVA or Duke take you. Granted, you could always hold out until next year to blanket the T-14 and hope one of them gives you cash, but that's not what you seem to be asking about.

[jbagelboy]

Damn, people are harsh. I guess I've been known to be harsh as well. OP isn't seriously thinking they have a shot at Yale this cycle, I think that was more of a throwaway comment - and an indication that they attended a UG with a strong reputation in the eyes of law schools - I'm going to guess Williams, Pomona, Stanford or Swarthmore. He/She seem like someone who might have a future interest in politics or fed government, hence the prestige chasing.

OP, the reality is that you will need top 10% from a T14 to transfer to Harvard (maybe a little more float for Columbia, which might serve your niche similarly?) as others have mentioned; transferring to Yale or Stanford is nearly impossible. Money doesn't seem to be a concern to you, so I think TCR is to ED UVA next cycle. You stand a pretty strong chance of getting in with that LSAT and further declining applications. Sorry to say, there's just not that much data on transfers. Also, try to get some productive experience/resume padding under your belt between now and then: could help your transfer prospects.

The only other school in the T14 you stand a reasonable shot at is Northwestern, with Georgetown a tossup. Georgetown would have a larger set of students trying to transfer up than the others.

Lastly - and my apologies for yet another piece of unsolicited advice, but law school grades are pretty random in practice, and you may legitimately be a crazy savant who just did a lot of drugs in college and blew it off or some variant (or maybe your mom had breast cancer, struggletrain ect) but you'll need to get your shit together. It's not a fly by night thing, and a lot of people who think they are like you will be aiming for that same 10% slot at the end of 1L. If you need another year to get some work experience and take your shit seriously and fix your issues from college that contributed to such a performance, I highly recommend it.

[SLS_AMG]

TLS has an amazing habit of answering questions you aren't asking and telling you how long the odds are.

Realistically, someone with my numbers got into Yale from my school. I realize that I have very slim chances at CCN, say a 10 per cent chance at each (the numbers I've seen are actually 22 per cent, not 10); that's a 27 per cent chance at T6, not including the one in a million at HYS. You might call a 27 per cent chance "very slim" - I don't. Maybe I play too much poker. But this isn't what I was even asking about.

My main question (I realize I didn't highlight it enough for people to get past the, "Oh man, you're not going to get into HYSCCN with a 2.6" knee-jerk response) is about transferring to HYS from Duke or Virginia; I have a niche reason to do so. I am looking for data on transfer students to HYS. Can anyone help me out on that front?

TLS tells everyone that because everyone, like you, thinks that they are a special snowflake. Sure, Yale would probably take one of Barack Obama's childen if they had a 178/2.6 or maybe an Olympic gold medalist. But unless you are Sasha or Malia or Michael Phelps, I don't think that applies. Did you see the statistic that someone posted about Yale admitting 0 people under a 3.5 GPA last cycle? Your GPA is almost an entire point below that.

And there isn't really a lot of data out there about intra-T14 transfers because they aren't all that common. As has been previously mentioned, grades good enough to get you into HYS from any T14 are easily good enough to get you big law and/or an Art. III clerkship. If you're in a position to transfer then that's fine, but you should never go to school with that specific goal. Also, your "niche" reason for asking about transferring to HYS sounds dubious - why all three? They are quite different schools of different sizes in different geographic regions. The fact that you haven't specified one of them isn't helping your cause with the posters on TLS.

[manu6926]

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[Clearly]

I'd be very shocked if you got into either Duke or Virginia with a Feb LSAT as a splitter.