UCLA vs Lower T14??? Forum

[Glasseyes]

The endless dilemma. Rankings vs comfort. Cost vs prestige. Blank vs blank. Ultimately my decision comes in two parts: stay in LA and attend UCLA, the hometown favorite, or venture forth for bigger/better/etc and do one of the lower T14 schools. And if I do a lower T14, which one? (This will be lengthy; apologies.)

Upfront Basics: I'm a nontrad student with a young family, currently in Los Angeles, looking to make the smartest decision overall, by which I mean the least risky in terms of finding employment after this is all said and done. I'm in the fortunate position that I won't have to finance the cost of tuition wherever I go, so the looming spectre of debt is less of a concern--rather, the cheaper I can do this the less I decimate my savings (i.e., moving to a new city and paying sticker at any of these schools would effectively decimate my savings).

Current Options: accepted at UCLA and Georgetown, still hoping for scholarships. I have been in talks with both schools and there is a potential for movement, but both have had a chance to dazzle me with numbers, and neither has. I'm also on the pre-waitlists for Cornell ("reserve") and Northwestern ("hold"), and somehow landed on Columbia's regular waitlist (also "reserve", though decidedly less reserved). Also in at Texas with a scholly for in-state tuition prices plus a couple grand, though I would only want to live and work in Austin (my wife has great texas ties, but Dallas & Houston are off the table). Have yet to hear back from Stanford and NYU, but I expect brutal rejections from both.

Goals: preferably biglaw, ideally by way of a fed clerkship (dream big, I say). I'm keeping an open mind, and I suspect goals and outcomes might shift once I spend time in school, but my one true goal is to graduate with the ability to put food on the table.

Ties & intangibles: I could happily live in any of the target markets to which I've applied (though Texas gets messy). I've been in Los Angeles for a good while and could stay if I had to, but it's probably not my first choice. That said, I have ties here, both professional and personal. Also have east coast ties, as I grew up there and did my undergrad in Boston. DC seems great, especially for internship opportunities, Cornell looks cold but gorgeous, and Chicago looks like the best place on earth, though I've never been there. Not concerned with bar scenes or nightlife as I already have a wife and baby hellspawn.

COA: Difficult to calculate because of the random variables of whether my wife can find work, and how much it would wind up costing for daycare or schools. Roughly, I can say that UCLA would probably be cheaper simply because it's the easiest situation: we know LA well, could save quite a bit on housing even when we move closer to school, and we're not moving a small house worth of crap cross-country. Just between UCLA and Georgetown, living in DC would cost roughly 5-10k more per year in rent, and UCLA is about 2k cheaper per year to begin with since I get in-state tuition.

My thinking: I'm thinking Columbia will not happen. Looking at LSN, my numbers are shit for their cycle. If the heavens were to part and I somehow got in, it's also a no-brainer to pay my deposit before they realize their horrible mistake. The two pre-waitlists seem promising, meaning I feel somewhat confident one might come through. My cycle outperformed my numbers by a fair bit, so I'm always hopeful that LOCIs and hold essays will work in my favor, but obviously I can't depend on that. I think Northwestern seems like the most promising possibility that might actually happen. Cornell seems slightly more compelling than UCLA or GULC only because of last year's employment stats, but I'm curious how this year will turn out for them. Between UCLA and GULC I'm honestly completely torn. Naturally they're the two most viable options. GULC seems like it would get me closer to my goals, but it will likely cost more to get there. UCLA is the path of least resistance, but those underemployed figures are troubling, and I worry that if a particular market were to shit the bed, my degree would not be especially portable or prestigious in other regions. Granted, if I'm not coming out with debt, I could also survive without biglaw should I not fit into the 39% of the class that nabs biglaw or fedclerk (though I like to think I would). I'm not really including Texas in my thought process because Austin seems more like a dream place filled with beards and bbq than any kind of place you actually get a job practicing the law.

tl;dr: UCLA vs lower T14, specifically GULC? The things I'm most concerned with: employment outcomes, portability of degree, providing for my family. Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

[Hitchensian]

Northwestern has the additional perk of having a general tendency to admit older applicants like yourself. So you just might generally fit in better there. (Not to say that you'll be a weirdo at one of the other schools, but I'm sure you understand what I mean )

As for a straight answer on the question: if I had a family I'd go for the most risk-averse (i.e. debt-averse) option on the table. So if you think there's a strong chance that you could graduate from UCLA with little (e.g. <$100k?) or even zero debt, and if UCLA is the only school at which doing so would be possible, then in my opinion UCLA would be the way to go.

[Glasseyes]

Northwestern has the additional perk of having a general tendency to admit older applicants like yourself. So you just might generally fit in better there. (Not to say that you'll be a weirdo at one of the other schools, but I'm sure you understand what I mean )

As for a straight answer on the question: if I had a family I'd go for the most risk-averse (i.e. debt-averse) option on the table. So if you think there's a strong chance that you could graduate from UCLA with little (e.g. <$100k?) or even zero debt, and if UCLA is the only school at which doing so would be possible, then in my opinion UCLA would be the way to go.

Northwestern was my first dream school for exactly that reason, at least until I got ahead of myself and started dreaming uncontrollably and went and applied to the whole T20

Provided the market doesn't completely shit itself and die, meaning savings and investments vanish in a puff of smoke before my tuition payments are up, I could theoretically graduate from any of these schools "debt free", in the sense that I won't be paying interest and I won't have any loans hung around my neck like an albatross. UCLA would just allow me to maintain something in savings, which is always a good thing when you have kids. I have this vague fear of our financial systems failing completely, throwing everything I saved into limbo, and decimating the legal market yet again, in which case: if both of those systems are essentially fucked, I doubt it would matter where I go. But it's trying to balance the notion of being debt-averse (and therefore choosing UCLA) vs being unemployment-averse (and picking from the T14) that especially trips me up.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, though. Great food for thought.

[BruinRegents]

Definitely gotta go to UCLA. All things being equal, UCLA would leave you with less debt. There is also an opportunity cost to uprooting your kids and being farther away form your support structure.*


*Disclaimer: I went to UCLA for UG and loved, LOVED the place.

[Tuxedo]

I'm not really including Texas in my thought process because Austin seems more like a dream place filled with beards and bbq than any kind of place you actually get a job practicing the law.

I live in Austin and I think you're probably right—it's not a huge legal market compared to Dallas and Houston. Even San Antonio might have more options for what you're considering, unless you want to interact with the Texas state government as a part of your profession (regulationy oversighty stuff).

[Glasseyes]

I expected more defenders of prestige on this board! As it stands they're all silent voters... interesting. Great stuff, guys. Also nice to see some UCLA love on here vs some of the bashing it often gets. So far I've visited UCLA and USC and much preferred the former. Taking a trip to see the other contenders next week, but this is all helpful insight. Keep em coming if ya got em.

[TheSpanishMain]

I vote UCLA. You may still get some $, you'll keep something in savings, you won't uproot your family, and it sounds like you don't have living in the LA area. If you can graduate from UCLA debt free, that ain't bad.