Top Law Schools

So I want to work in Utah, my fiancé has a business here- I didn't apply to BYU and if I went to University of Utah COA would be nothing because I have scholarship and she would pay for everything else. Currently I am held at Northwestern, haven't heard from Michigan, priority waitlist at Georgetown, accepted to U Texas but no scholarship info yet. I'm supposed to fly to ucla for an interview. I'm wondering if somewhere like ucla or texas would get me a better job in utah or if I should just stay here. If I go to any of the higher ranked schools scholarship will be meager if I get any at all- 3.2 168 lsat twice.

Do you know what kind of work you want to do? If you are cool with doing small law/local government then I would definitely take Utah.

Winston1984 wrote:Do you know what kind of work you want to do? If you are cool with doing small law/local government then I would definitely take Utah.

Ideally I want To make 100k per year , which is probably top 5 to 10 percent of the class at utah

whjohnso444 wrote:

Winston1984 wrote:Do you know what kind of work you want to do? If you are cool with doing small law/local government then I would definitely take Utah.

Ideally I want To make 100k per year , which is probably top 5 to 10 percent of the class at utah

Then you need to go to a T-14. You aren't going to get that kind of salary out of Utah. Would you rather work in biglaw, or work in Utah?

I know people at Utah who are top 10-15% still looking for jobs 3L year. Utah is a terribly saturated legal market and there are 2 law schools plus all the other people who want to live in Utah looking for legal work in a state w/ less than 3 million people. Even the BigLaw firms in Utah don't have huge offices (and no firms there have large summer classes). To get those high-end jobs out of one of the state schools, you'll pretty much have to be top 10% or hope your fiance is the kid of the managing/hiring partner. There just isn't much slack in the market there. Go to T14 and whenever you go to visit Utah, make connections with lawyers/law firms to solidify your ties/demonstrate your desire to work there. But have backup job search/bid plans as a contingency if/when Utah (at your desired pay level) doesn't work out.

TL;DR - Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

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sublime wrote:

downinDtown wrote:I know people at Utah who are top 10-15% still looking for jobs 3L year. Utah is a terribly saturated legal market and there are 2 law schools plus all the other people who want to live in Utah looking for legal work in a state w/ less than 3 million people. Even the BigLaw firms in Utah don't have huge offices (and no firms there have large summer classes). To get those out of one of the state schools, you'll pretty much have to be top 10% or hope your fiance is the daughter of the managing/hiring partner. There just isn't much slack in the market there. Go to T14 and whenever you go to visit Utah, make connections with lawyers/law firms to solidify your ties/demonstrate your desire to work there. But have backup job search/bid plans as a contingency if/when Utah (at your desired pay level) doesn't work out.

TL;DR - Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

Wow. Never imagined Utah being that in demand.

It's partially due to the oversupply of people willing/wanting to work there (2 schools in state + all the Mormons who went out-of-state and want to move back) and lack of legal demand (only have a few "large businesses" there). Utah is also oversaturated with dentists despite only having one dental school (and another one its way -- law schools aren't the only ones pumping out unneeded graduates).

Gonna link to the OP's other choosing thread just to make it easier for people to jump back and forth between the two
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p7547006

sublime wrote:

downinDtown wrote:I know people at Utah who are top 10-15% still looking for jobs 3L year. Utah is a terribly saturated legal market and there are 2 law schools plus all the other people who want to live in Utah looking for legal work in a state w/ less than 3 million people. Even the BigLaw firms in Utah don't have huge offices (and no firms there have large summer classes). To get those out of one of the state schools, you'll pretty much have to be top 10% or hope your fiance is the daughter of the managing/hiring partner. There just isn't much slack in the market there. Go to T14 and whenever you go to visit Utah, make connections with lawyers/law firms to solidify your ties/demonstrate your desire to work there. But have backup job search/bid plans as a contingency if/when Utah (at your desired pay level) doesn't work out.

TL;DR - Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

Wow. Never imagined Utah being that in demand.

datINSANELYBEAUTIFULSTATE works magic

whjohnso444 wrote:fiancé

I just read both of your posts about choosing schools. In this one, I thought you were female (because you referred to your SO as your "fiancé") but in the other one you said you were male and called her your wife (did you get married already??). I guess I was confused when I first read this post because "fiancé" refers to a male engaged to be married, while "fiancée" refers to a female engaged to be married (As an FYI).

I'm curious, will your wife/fiancée be able to work remotely or is she going to need to stay in Utah to run her business? That may have a role to play in your decision, but if she's flexible to working anywhere, do what I said earlier: Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

cotiger wrote:

sublime wrote:

downinDtown wrote:I know people at Utah who are top 10-15% still looking for jobs 3L year. Utah is a terribly saturated legal market and there are 2 law schools plus all the other people who want to live in Utah looking for legal work in a state w/ less than 3 million people. Even the BigLaw firms in Utah don't have huge offices (and no firms there have large summer classes). To get those out of one of the state schools, you'll pretty much have to be top 10% or hope your fiance is the daughter of the managing/hiring partner. There just isn't much slack in the market there. Go to T14 and whenever you go to visit Utah, make connections with lawyers/law firms to solidify your ties/demonstrate your desire to work there. But have backup job search/bid plans as a contingency if/when Utah (at your desired pay level) doesn't work out.

TL;DR - Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

Wow. Never imagined Utah being that in demand.

datINSANELYBEAUTIFULSTATE works magic

datBESTSNOWONEARTH magic too

downinDtown wrote:

whjohnso444 wrote:fiancé

I just read both of your posts about choosing schools. In this one, I thought you were female (because you referred to your SO as your "fiancé") but in the other one you said you were male and called her your wife (did you get married already??). I guess I was confused when I first read this post because "fiancé" refers to a male engaged to be married, while "fiancée" refers to a female engaged to be married (As an FYI).

I'm curious, will your wife/fiancée be able to work remotely or is she going to need to stay in Utah to run her business? That may have a role to play in your decision, but if she's flexible to working anywhere, do what I said earlier: Go to the school that gives you access to your 2nd choice of state/market you'd consider living in and target Utah jobs but give yourself backup options.

Lolzzz I'm male and not really sure how to spell these things. We're getting married very soon. She would prefer to stay here but she can run it from out of state she would just fly in once a month. Basically were just trying decide if i would be worth it to leave utah for me to have better earning potential, or if it really wouldn't make a difference worth all the extra costs and trouble.

You seem laser focused on the making 100K in Utah thing. That's kind of arbitrary IMO but there is a very small chance of that happening.

If you want to be a lawyer in Utah, go to a Utah school for cheap and be prepared to make like 40-50k coming out (and possibly never over 100K)

If you want to make over 100k, go to a T14 and be prepared to get a job in a place like NY

BigZuck wrote:You seem laser focused on the making 100K in Utah thing. That's kind of arbitrary IMO but there is a very small chance of that happening.

If you want to be a lawyer in Utah, go to a Utah school for cheap and be prepared to make like 40-50k coming out (and possibly never over 100K)

If you want to make over 100k, go to a T14 and be prepared to get a job in a place like NY

Yeah, the list of NALP firms in Utah is pretty short; there probably aren't that many others that are paying 100K+, as 110-115 seems to be the high-end of the market. I'm sure the local Utah firms, even the big ones, don't top that figure.

2013 compensation for entry-level lawyers ($/year) (based on NALP data: http://nalpdirectory.com/)
Ballard Spahr - $115,000 (hired 1 associate in 2012; doesn't look like any for 2013) (40 attorneys in office)
Chapman and Cutler - $130,000 (1 2L SA in 2013) (firm of 233 total; 14 in office)
Dorsey & Whitney - $110,000 (2 2L SAs in 2013) (firm total 563 attorneys; 20 in UT office)
Holland & Hart - $110,000 (1 2L SA in 2013) (firm total 460 attorneys; 76 in UT office)
Snell & Wilmer - $115,000 (2 2L SAs in 2013) (firm total 426 attorneys; 49 in UT office)
Stoel Rives - $110,000 (3 2L SAs in 2013) (firm total 400 attorneys; 68 in UT office)
Thorpe North & Western - $108,000 (1 1L SA in 2013, 2 entry level hires) (firm total of 20 attorneys, all in UT)

For grads that stayed in-state (76.86 % of the 2011 class)
25th Percentile = $48,000
75th Percentile = $85,000
With a maximum of $130,000 (apparently at Chapman & Cutler)
Mean = $68,963
Median = $60,000

Basically, if you're happier with lower debt/COA and are okay settling for a salary between 50-80K, then go Utah. Otherwise, I'm starting to think that you need to go to the best school and then look to lateral in down the road since a lot of the Utah firms don't appear to have any substantial SA/entry-level hiring in place.

There are a lot of Mormon students at Iowa who want to go back to Utah, FWIW. I bet this is a pretty common trend at many decent-to-Top14 law schools.

Damn I guess 80 is fine with low cost of living. I work at a firm now that has 200+ attorneys scattered about the nation but they do disability and personal injury so I guess it's not technically "biglaw". Even so, seems like they make a ton of money.

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