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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:04 am
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Law School Discussion Forums
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https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=226356
Its a win for CLS on both fronts:almondjoy wrote:Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.
Firm/experience is almost certainly more important. I mean C and H are both viewed by attorney as schools at the very top (better names than almost everyone else went to).almondjoy wrote:Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.
Columbia. 78% A3/biglaw vs. 71.5% at H. Also $$$.almondjoy wrote:Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.
NeedAnExit wrote:The honest answer is that I'm not sure.
I chose HLS over the Hamilton and a full-ride at NYU, in large part because I went into law school wanting to avoid biglaw, and the institutional support at HLS just seemed to be a lot better for my interests. (I have no idea if that's actually true - but that's what I thought.) I had significant personal savings due because I worked for a few years before law school, and graduated with about 120k in debt.
I did very well at HLS, but wasn't able to get the public service job that I wanted because hiring was cut dramatically. I considered taking a different public service job, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. In the absence of debt, I would have taken that job anyway, but I thought that I shouldn't take a 100k pay cut and have a still-considerable debt burden even with LIPP for a job that had, in my mind, some serious drawbacks. (On a side note: LIPP is not great: if you look at the scale, you still have to contribute around 6k if you're making in the low 60s. That's tough if you're living in SF, NYC, DC.)
So instead I went back into biglaw in September. As I've previously described on this board, I've hated almost every moment of it, even though I've gotten do some things that are (1) very interesting, and (2) will look great on my resume. During one of the darkest points of the year, when the job had really taken a toll on my mental health, I miraculously landed a clerkship that begins this summer.
I wouldn't have gone into biglaw if I had taken the full-rides, but then I also probably would not have gotten the clerkship since it was orchestrated by a very connected HLS professor. I will say that biglaw is absolutely miserable, and a big part of my stress was feeling like I was trapped in it because of the debt. I also have about 90k debt left, and anticipate having about 75k left after I finish clerking, and I'm not sure how quickly I'm going to be able to get rid of it because I'm certainly not going back into biglaw. If I could have a do-over, I would take the full-ride, but I'm also aware (and appreciative of) the fact that HLS has in fact opened some doors that I'm not sure would be open otherwise. But before I got the clerkship and found a way out, I very much regretted taking on a life-altering amount of debt from Harvard.
.kaiser wrote: Perhaps as a 0L, I may have been more unsure on this choice. I remember my application cycle and being starstruck by certain school names. And that is totally understandable. At that point, the debt is just an abstract afterthought, and the only thing you see is that big letter H. But I urge you to try and look past that, and to think about this as a matter of pure cost/benefit logic. And I think that, given your goals, CA connections, and present choices, tips sufficiently toward CLS to make it the proper choice.
Just speak with as many actual grads as you can. You need to filter out what I call the "0L factor" on polls like these. That isn't to say that 0L's don't offer useful insight on a number of topics. Many times, they do. But their position is too similar to yours to be of much value, since they may very well have the same mindset (i.e. debt is far away, unsure how much school choice will matter down the road, unsure what schools keep what doors open, etc.).almondjoy wrote:Yeah this is exactly how I'm feeling right now, and I know I shouldn't think this way but it's tough. Thanks for giving me some perspective. Also my fears of not getting back to CA are beginning to fade away hahakaiser wrote: Perhaps as a 0L, I may have been more unsure on this choice. I remember my application cycle and being starstruck by certain school names. And that is totally understandable. At that point, the debt is just an abstract afterthought, and the only thing you see is that big letter H. But I urge you to try and look past that, and to think about this as a matter of pure cost/benefit logic. And I think that, given your goals, CA connections, and present choices, tips sufficiently toward CLS to make it the proper choice.
LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree?chneyo wrote:"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."
-Eminem
Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?
ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.
I assumed his post was a jokeLaw Sauce wrote:LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree? A: not one whose opinion matters.chneyo wrote:"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."
-Eminem
Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?
ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.
I assumed mine was as wellkaiser wrote:I assumed his post was a jokeLaw Sauce wrote:LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree?chneyo wrote:"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."
-Eminem
Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?
ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.
First, do you have any idea what "large international corporate law" means? What are you even referring to? And no, large firms with international offices/practices don't have a strong preference for one of the two degrees over another. 0L's should not be giving advice about legal employment.chneyo wrote:Whoa whoa whoa, cowboy. I'm not belittling a CLS degree at all. I was saying two things through a joke. First, the name recognition, both layman and internationally, of an HLS degree is far superior to that of CLS. Might not matter to you. But if you plan on working large international corporate law, it may be something to consider. Secondly, I think all of the advice saying "save the 100k" is a bit much. I mean, people come out of no-name undergrad institutions with 100k in debt for an English degree, and they seem to make it. I think telling someone not to go to HLS specifically and solely because of the 100k, especially when they're planning on BigLaw, is a bit ridiculous.Law Sauce wrote:LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree? A: not one whose opinion matters.chneyo wrote:"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."
-Eminem
Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?
ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.
That said, CLS is a freakin' great place. It's in NYC, the greatest city in the world. And, it's a nice soft blue, not nearly as harsh as the deep but powerful Yale blue. There are plenty of reasons to go there... but saving 100k should not be the primary one for the OP.