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[almondjoy]

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[kaiser]

I would def choose Columbia. I can speak to NYU, but I know folks at Columbia who said the same, but CA is the 2nd most common place of employment for grads. If you have some personal connection to the place (which you have a ton), CLS will absolutely get you back there. And if your goal is to work in a firm, then CLS will of course get you that as well (pretty much the easiest outcome to achieve out of a school like CLS). Don't worry about the abberation horror stories. They are few and far between at a school like CLS. And any marginal safety net you achieve by going to Harvard simply isn't worth the additional 100K+ you would be paying for it. I would take the $$ at CLS and not look back for one sec.

[Law Sauce]

Columbia easily. It is unlikely but possible that you can fail at either school. H is not $110k+ better for big law.

[almondjoy]

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[kaiser]

Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.

Its a win for CLS on both fronts:

1. Your school matters less and less down the road as you build up experience, so the marginal benefits of Harvard sort of diminish, at least when compared to your experience, skills, connections, etc.

2. CLS is one of the very best schools in the country. Don't think for one second that the CLS name doesn't carry heavy weight. To the limited extent that school name matters down the road (again, its importance diminishes once you have real experience and skills built up), the CLS name is one that will only benefit you.

And remember that CLS's bread and butter is placing students in big firm jobs. There are a few limited reasons and circumstances when HLS may genuinely be worth 100K more. But shooting for biglaw is most certainly not among those circumstances, and I don't think you will find a law school graduate who would argue otherwise.

[Law Sauce]

Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.

Firm/experience is almost certainly more important. I mean C and H are both viewed by attorney as schools at the very top (better names than almost everyone else went to).

Alumni network of H is the only real advantage long term (and maybe the proverbial Harvard Law sweatshirt). But C certainly also has a strong network. I mean we are not comparing H to USC, these are both considered very high prestige schools. I think you should be focusing more on the immediate opportunities v. costs. My argument is that, for big law, additional costs will not be overcome by additional opportunities from H.

But, I do not go to either school, others may have other opinions.

[jbagelboy]

Thanks for the quick responses! I know it's hard to answer this but what about down the line after my stay in biglaw, does your LS have an effect on exit opportunities? Or is it mostly about your firm/experience at that point? I'm starting to learn toward the money but I don't want to be too short-sighted either.

Columbia. 78% A3/biglaw vs. 71.5% at H. Also $$$.

Your exit ops will be no different between H and CLS if you are at the same firm performing the same work, unless you clerked and went into highly specialized litigation, or wanted to go into academia (which is a longshot either way).

For nyc or la biglaw, cls is clear winner. You aren't losing something here by taking the money. Yes, people have struck out at median, but that is due to personality (aspie folks), not grades or opportunities.

[NeedAnExit]

I posted this in another thread - my goals were/are different than yours, so it may be of only limited usefulness.

The honest answer is that I'm not sure.

I chose HLS over the Hamilton and a full-ride at NYU, in large part because I went into law school wanting to avoid biglaw, and the institutional support at HLS just seemed to be a lot better for my interests. (I have no idea if that's actually true - but that's what I thought.) I had significant personal savings due because I worked for a few years before law school, and graduated with about 120k in debt.

I did very well at HLS, but wasn't able to get the public service job that I wanted because hiring was cut dramatically. I considered taking a different public service job, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. In the absence of debt, I would have taken that job anyway, but I thought that I shouldn't take a 100k pay cut and have a still-considerable debt burden even with LIPP for a job that had, in my mind, some serious drawbacks. (On a side note: LIPP is not great: if you look at the scale, you still have to contribute around 6k if you're making in the low 60s. That's tough if you're living in SF, NYC, DC.)

So instead I went back into biglaw in September. As I've previously described on this board, I've hated almost every moment of it, even though I've gotten do some things that are (1) very interesting, and (2) will look great on my resume. During one of the darkest points of the year, when the job had really taken a toll on my mental health, I miraculously landed a clerkship that begins this summer.

I wouldn't have gone into biglaw if I had taken the full-rides, but then I also probably would not have gotten the clerkship since it was orchestrated by a very connected HLS professor. I will say that biglaw is absolutely miserable, and a big part of my stress was feeling like I was trapped in it because of the debt. I also have about 90k debt left, and anticipate having about 75k left after I finish clerking, and I'm not sure how quickly I'm going to be able to get rid of it because I'm certainly not going back into biglaw. If I could have a do-over, I would take the full-ride, but I'm also aware (and appreciative of) the fact that HLS has in fact opened some doors that I'm not sure would be open otherwise. But before I got the clerkship and found a way out, I very much regretted taking on a life-altering amount of debt from Harvard.

[jbagelboy]

Also worth noting re: LA biglaw. CA native here, without divulging too many details I'll just say, coming home hasn't been a problem at all from personal experience or anyone I know coming from LA who wanted to SA there.

As a caveat, SF is known to be way more difficult. But that doesn't seem relevant for you

[kaiser]

And if you notice, OP, everyone actually typing out responses are providing logical reasons why CLS is the right choice here. I personally would love to see the H voters actually defend and explain their choice with something other than "Dude, its freakin' Harvard" or "keep those doors open, OP".

Perhaps as a 0L, I may have been more unsure on this choice. I remember my application cycle and being starstruck by certain school names. And that is totally understandable. At that point, the debt is just an abstract afterthought, and the only thing you see is that big letter H. But I urge you to try and look past that, and to think about this as a matter of pure cost/benefit logic. And I think that, given your goals, CA connections, and present choices, tips sufficiently toward CLS to make it the proper choice.

[chneyo]

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[californiauser]

CLS no doubt

[almondjoy]

Perhaps as a 0L, I may have been more unsure on this choice. I remember my application cycle and being starstruck by certain school names. And that is totally understandable. At that point, the debt is just an abstract afterthought, and the only thing you see is that big letter H. But I urge you to try and look past that, and to think about this as a matter of pure cost/benefit logic. And I think that, given your goals, CA connections, and present choices, tips sufficiently toward CLS to make it the proper choice.

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[Tiago Splitter]

Even if you land your dream biglaw job in LA 245K in debt is going to be a bitch to pay off. 140k won't be a thrill ride but it's low enough that you can exit biglaw almost immediately if it's not your thing. And if you are really locked in on SoCal from the beginning I don't think getting a biglaw gig there will be too tough from CLS.

[chneyo]

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[kaiser]

Perhaps as a 0L, I may have been more unsure on this choice. I remember my application cycle and being starstruck by certain school names. And that is totally understandable. At that point, the debt is just an abstract afterthought, and the only thing you see is that big letter H. But I urge you to try and look past that, and to think about this as a matter of pure cost/benefit logic. And I think that, given your goals, CA connections, and present choices, tips sufficiently toward CLS to make it the proper choice.

Yeah this is exactly how I'm feeling right now, and I know I shouldn't think this way but it's tough. Thanks for giving me some perspective. Also my fears of not getting back to CA are beginning to fade away haha

Just speak with as many actual grads as you can. You need to filter out what I call the "0L factor" on polls like these. That isn't to say that 0L's don't offer useful insight on a number of topics. Many times, they do. But their position is too similar to yours to be of much value, since they may very well have the same mindset (i.e. debt is far away, unsure how much school choice will matter down the road, unsure what schools keep what doors open, etc.).

[Law Sauce]

"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."

-Eminem

Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?

ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.

LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree?

[kaiser]

"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."

-Eminem

Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?

ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.

LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree? A: not one whose opinion matters.

I assumed his post was a joke

[banjo]

Defer the Hamilton for two years and get some work experience. WE will let you save a little money and give you added security at OCI.

[Law Sauce]

"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."

-Eminem

Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?

ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.

LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree?

I assumed his post was a joke

I assumed mine was as well

[chneyo]

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[jbagelboy]

"You better lose yourself in the music, the moment, you own it, you better never let it go. You only get one shot; do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime."

-Eminem

Gonna sting every time you walk by that Harvard Club if you turn it down over 100k. You're going BigLaw, son. What's a hundred thou but a medicore sportscar for mid-life-crisis-40-somethings?

ETA: Of course, unless you only have a passing interest in BigLaw. Or you don't make partner. Or XYZ123. But still, never regret betting on yourself.

LOL… Q: what kind of person would you have to become to spend your whole life belittling a Columbia Law degree because it wasn't a harvard degree? A: not one whose opinion matters.

Whoa whoa whoa, cowboy. I'm not belittling a CLS degree at all. I was saying two things through a joke. First, the name recognition, both layman and internationally, of an HLS degree is far superior to that of CLS. Might not matter to you. But if you plan on working large international corporate law, it may be something to consider. Secondly, I think all of the advice saying "save the 100k" is a bit much. I mean, people come out of no-name undergrad institutions with 100k in debt for an English degree, and they seem to make it. I think telling someone not to go to HLS specifically and solely because of the 100k, especially when they're planning on BigLaw, is a bit ridiculous.

That said, CLS is a freakin' great place. It's in NYC, the greatest city in the world. And, it's a nice soft blue, not nearly as harsh as the deep but powerful Yale blue. There are plenty of reasons to go there... but saving 100k should not be the primary one for the OP.

First, do you have any idea what "large international corporate law" means? What are you even referring to? And no, large firms with international offices/practices don't have a strong preference for one of the two degrees over another. 0L's should not be giving advice about legal employment.

The rest is horrible advice. Can't tell if you're kidding? The bolded has left thousands penniless and ruined plenty of careers. If OP is thinking about taking out loans, the $100K matters an incredible amount, more than anything else. The fact that HLS is not superior to CLS for biglaw placement should be the first consideration; cost is a close second. If Cambridge was $100K cheaper, I wouldn't give a shit that NYC is far more fun/dynamic. Not relevant.

[chneyo]

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[worldtraveler]

If I were you I'd want a full ride to another T10 if all you want is big law.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Can't' go wrong either way - literally one of the best situations imaginable