Top Law Schools

So I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either attending NYU (haven't heard back from financial aid but I'm assuming little to no money) versus Georgetown at 25-30k per year. I'm from the DC area but I'm completely fine with moving to New York.

Goals after law school are biglaw in either DC or (more likely) New York.

Side Notes: K-JD. Don't mention retaking because I took the LSAT once and got a 175 (issues with GPA freshman year+weak softs hurt my app)

Thanks in advance. I know this question has probably been asked many times but if anyone feels they can add anything substantial it would be greatly appreciated. Feeling a bit pressured by my parents to take the money, but I don't want to make the wrong decision. Going to NYU was my top choice when I applied. Not overly debt averse, but sticker or close to it is a TON of debt. Also, possibly some help from relatives (but nothing substantial)

I went to NYU, but I feel like, if I had a 30K per year offer from a lower ranked T-14 school, I'd probably have taken it if my goal were NYC biglaw. If you are open to either DC or NYC, and your main goal is a large firm, its probably best to attend the T14 school that gave you money while still giving you access to your desired markets.

ForLawSchool wrote:So I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either attending NYU (haven't heard back from financial aid but I'm assuming little to no money) versus Georgetown at 25-30k per year. I'm from the DC area but I'm completely fine with moving to New York.

Goals after law school are biglaw in either DC or (more likely) New York.

Side Notes: K-JD. Don't mention retaking because I took the LSAT once and got a 175 (issues with GPA freshman year+weak softs hurt my app)

Thanks in advance. I know this question has probably been asked many times but if anyone feels they can add anything substantial it would be greatly appreciated. Feeling a bit pressured by my parents to take the money, but I don't want to make the wrong decision. Going to NYU was my top choice when I applied. Not overly debt averse, but sticker or close to it is a TON of debt. Also, possibly some help from relatives (but nothing substantial)

How is it "25-30k/year" at gulc? Have they given you an offer, or are you postulating? Even so, at that rate, you're looking at easily $150k at gulc and likely close to $300k at nyu. Either way, you definitely need big law. In that case, I vote nyu because your chances of servicing your debt are far superior.

Pressured by your parents, as in they're paying for some of it?

ForLawSchool wrote:So I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either attending NYU (haven't heard back from financial aid but I'm assuming little to no money) versus Georgetown at 25-30k per year. I'm from the DC area but I'm completely fine with moving to New York.

Goals after law school are biglaw in either DC or (more likely) New York.

Side Notes: K-JD. Don't mention retaking because I took the LSAT once and got a 175 (issues with GPA freshman year+weak softs hurt my app)

Thanks in advance. I know this question has probably been asked many times but if anyone feels they can add anything substantial it would be greatly appreciated. Feeling a bit pressured by my parents to take the money, but I don't want to make the wrong decision. Going to NYU was my top choice when I applied. Not overly debt averse, but sticker or close to it is a TON of debt. Also, possibly some help from relatives (but nothing substantial)

Could you live at home and commute to Gtown for at least your first year? If you can keep COA down at Gtown, then I think it is the winner. If not, then probably NYU is worth it for the better odds of big law

Is biglaw not such a sure thing out of GULC? I can at least speak to NYU, and pretty much everyone who wants biglaw there gets it. Sure, if you are lower half of the class, you aren't getting some top 10 firm, but you are very likely still getting some market-paying Vault 100 firm, and have a great job out of school. Not sure what hiring is like at GULC. If its really that shaky as far as biglaw, then perhaps the extra debt at NYU is justified. But full sticker at NYU just sounds scary.

Getting your career off to the wrong start costs more in lifetime earnings than you would save with that scholarship. You could have good prospects graduating from GULC, but with NYU there's more employment security and likely greater quality of employment. If you're already sure about big law it's not as if you're precluding yourself from a public interest passion by taking on that debt.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nyu
NYU Biglaw = 59.5%

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gulc
GULC Biglaw = 39.1%

Might be due to self-selection bias, but the numbers suggest your chances into Biglaw.

Maybe I'm missing something but I think, as between these two schools alone,* Georgetown is clearly wrong. $90k is of course a lot of money and so if this were Cornell w/ 90k vs. NYU sticker, that's pretty easy. But if you're taking out loans for the remaining costs you still basically need biglaw from Georgetown, and the odds are just so much worse than from NYU. I'm not going to sit here and say that taking out $280k or whatever for NYU is an easy choice to make (although I'm at sticker at a lower-ranked school) but it's certainly a better option than $180k for Georgetown.

*If you've got a 3.2/175 or something this might be the best you can do.

iskim88 wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nyu
NYU Biglaw = 59.5%

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gulc
GULC Biglaw = 39.1%

Might be due to self-selection bias, but the numbers suggest your chances into Biglaw.

NYU also has a higher fed clerkship percentage, and any self-selection arguments for GULC apply with equal force to NYU.

I'd do NYU here but yeah that's a lot of debt. 75k from GULC still leaves you with a lot of debt there too. Go to the school that makes getting biglaw easy.

Also, you can absolutely take steps to minimize your cost of living at NYU, and get it well below the school's suggested numbers. I shared an apartment with a few friends in Jersey City, and took the PATH train to the Village (stops 5 minutes from NYU, and got me door to door in just under half an hour). So COL was far lower for me since I was only paying about $750/month on rent, not paying NYC prices for food and other services, etc. Bought my casebooks on half.com, lived frugally in general, etc. and my costs came out way lower than the school would lead you to believe.

Sit out a year and ED Northwestern next year with a 175 you will get a full-ride.

If that's not an option, what else is on the table besides NYU and GULC - anything else?

kaiser wrote:Also, you can absolutely take steps to minimize your cost of living at NYU, and get it well below the school's suggested numbers. I shared an apartment with a few friends in Jersey City, and took the PATH train to the Village (stops 5 minutes from NYU, and got me door to door in just under half an hour). So COL was far lower for me since I was only paying about $750/month on rent, not paying NYC prices for food and other services, etc. Bought my casebooks on half.com, lived frugally in general, etc. and my costs came out way lower than the school would lead you to believe.

Was going to say something similar. The $22.4k/year room and board in their student expense budget is high if you're in the outer boroughs. My last apartment in Bushwick was $500 after utilities and was about 30 minutes door to door.

Kaiser, would you recommend Jersey City for a 1L? I heard most people dorm their first year, did being in JC make it harder to become part of the community or anything like that?

Max324 wrote:

kaiser wrote:Also, you can absolutely take steps to minimize your cost of living at NYU, and get it well below the school's suggested numbers. I shared an apartment with a few friends in Jersey City, and took the PATH train to the Village (stops 5 minutes from NYU, and got me door to door in just under half an hour). So COL was far lower for me since I was only paying about $750/month on rent, not paying NYC prices for food and other services, etc. Bought my casebooks on half.com, lived frugally in general, etc. and my costs came out way lower than the school would lead you to believe.

Was going to say something similar. The $22.4k/year room and board in their student expense budget is high if you're in the outer boroughs. My last apartment in Bushwick was $500 after utilities and was about 30 minutes door to door.

Kaiser, would you recommend Jersey City for a 1L? I heard most people dorm their first year, did being in JC make it harder to become part of the community or anything like that?

Full disclosure: I was a transfer, so I can't fully answer the question unfortunately. Yes, most people dorm their first year. The dorms are by far the most convenient option and it keeps people knee-deep in the top-law-schools.com and culture at all times, and there is obviously some benefit in that. Heck, that was the case during 2L year, when I was just getting to know the school. its not the best to have to head back home at the end of the day, but I made it work, and I would have made the same choice again.

What's your GPA? Might be better off getting some work exp. and applying early next cycle if you underperformed (thank you for not having to make me say retake this time).

If you didn't underperform disregard this

matthewsean85 wrote:

ForLawSchool wrote:So I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either attending NYU (haven't heard back from financial aid but I'm assuming little to no money) versus Georgetown at 25-30k per year. I'm from the DC area but I'm completely fine with moving to New York.

Goals after law school are biglaw in either DC or (more likely) New York.

Side Notes: K-JD. Don't mention retaking because I took the LSAT once and got a 175 (issues with GPA freshman year+weak softs hurt my app)

Thanks in advance. I know this question has probably been asked many times but if anyone feels they can add anything substantial it would be greatly appreciated. Feeling a bit pressured by my parents to take the money, but I don't want to make the wrong decision. Going to NYU was my top choice when I applied. Not overly debt averse, but sticker or close to it is a TON of debt. Also, possibly some help from relatives (but nothing substantial)

How is it "25-30k/year" at gulc? Have they given you an offer, or are you postulating? Even so, at that rate, you're looking at easily $150k at gulc and likely close to $300k at nyu. Either way, you definitely need big law. In that case, I vote nyu because your chances of servicing your debt are far superior.

Not postulating, but rather was initially offered 25K/year and figured I might be able to negotiate this up to 30k, although I have no idea about how successful this would be. Due to GULC's interesting "how much do you think you deserve" scholarship question, combined with the fact that I hadn't yet gotten into a higher ranked school (NYU), I decided to go with a practical/safer response of 25k, which I received. Don't know if I would have gotten more if I had asked, but I kind of doubt it. Was pretty surprised with 75k in actuality.

cotiger wrote:Pressured by your parents, as in they're paying for some of it?

No, more the fact that they wouldn't mind me staying in the area/think it's silly to give up that much money. Although I will admit, they don't know much about law schools other than what I've told them. They will most likely help a little bit regardless, but I'm talking <40k.

PrideandGlory1776 wrote:Sit out a year and ED Northwestern next year with a 175 you will get a full-ride.

If that's not an option, what else is on the table besides NYU and GULC - anything else?

Really not considering sitting out a year, given that I don't have game-changing job opportunities and my GPA isn't going to get that huge of a boost (maybe go from a 3.38 to a 3.43, which seemingly wouldn't make a huge difference given the fact that it's below all of the T14's 25th percentile GPAs except for GULC and NW. I feel that I already have a really solid offer from GULC, and NW really isn't appealing to me for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately I didn't blanket the T-14 because I didn't understand the importance of negotiating scholarship offers so I only applied to schools that appealed to me, but I don't know how much this really would have helped anyways. I got admitted to Michigan very recently after not writing a why michigan, and they don't seem too keen on offering me any money. Also currently reserve at Columbia.

ForLawSchool wrote:

cotiger wrote:Pressured by your parents, as in they're paying for some of it?

No, more the fact that they wouldn't mind me staying in the area/think it's silly to give up that much money. Although I will admit, they don't know much about law schools other than what I've told them. They will most likely help a little bit regardless, but I'm talking <40k.

Gotcha.

Let's say you get 10k/yr from them.

You're looking at around $270,000 debt at graduation at NYU, and $165,000 debt at grad at GULC.

If you could live at home while going to GULC and so cut way back on living expenses, you could come away from GULC with only around $100,000 debt. That's not a bad deal. Still, if you're really going for biglaw, GULC is kinda iffy. See if NYU will give you anything. Even $10k/yr will help.

NYU will get you biglaw a hell of a lot easier than GULC. But even if you get it, at the price you're paying now, you'd have to pay $55,000/year for six years to pay it back. Most people don't last that long.

cotiger wrote:

ForLawSchool wrote:

cotiger wrote:Pressured by your parents, as in they're paying for some of it?

No, more the fact that they wouldn't mind me staying in the area/think it's silly to give up that much money. Although I will admit, they don't know much about law schools other than what I've told them. They will most likely help a little bit regardless, but I'm talking <40k.

Gotcha.

Let's say you get 10k/yr from them.

You're looking at around $270,000 debt at graduation at NYU, and $165,000 debt at grad at GULC.

If you could live at home while going to GULC and so cut way back on living expenses, you could come away from GULC with only around $100,000 debt. That's not a bad deal. Still, if you're really going for biglaw, GULC is kinda iffy. See if NYU will give you anything. Even $10k/yr will help.

NYU will get you biglaw a hell of a lot easier than GULC. But even if you get it, at the price you're paying now, you'd have to pay $55,000/year for six years to pay it back. Most people don't last that long.

Thanks for writing back. Living at home isn't really an option, so it would be more in line with your 165k debt assessment (although I guess more like 130k with help, but this would similarly make the NYU debt 235k). Also, already have a roommate to cut down on rent prices whichever school I choose, and I am completely open to living in New Jersey/cheaper area of NY to save on living costs. This goes both ways though, as I would possibly live in a nearby suburb in MD for GULC savings.

ForLawSchool wrote:

cotiger wrote:

ForLawSchool wrote:

cotiger wrote:Pressured by your parents, as in they're paying for some of it?

No, more the fact that they wouldn't mind me staying in the area/think it's silly to give up that much money. Although I will admit, they don't know much about law schools other than what I've told them. They will most likely help a little bit regardless, but I'm talking <40k.

Gotcha.

Let's say you get 10k/yr from them.

You're looking at around $270,000 debt at graduation at NYU, and $165,000 debt at grad at GULC.

If you could live at home while going to GULC and so cut way back on living expenses, you could come away from GULC with only around $100,000 debt. That's not a bad deal. Still, if you're really going for biglaw, GULC is kinda iffy. See if NYU will give you anything. Even $10k/yr will help.

NYU will get you biglaw a hell of a lot easier than GULC. But even if you get it, at the price you're paying now, you'd have to pay $55,000/year for six years to pay it back. Most people don't last that long.

Thanks for writing back. Living at home isn't really an option, so it would be more in line with your 165k debt assessment (although I guess more like 130k with help, but this would similarly make the NYU debt 235k). Also, already have a roommate to cut down on rent prices whichever school I choose, and I am completely open to living in New Jersey/cheaper area of NY to save on living costs. This goes both ways though, as I would possibly live in a nearby suburb in MD for GULC savings.

Nah, the 270k and 165k estimates were including that 10k/yr from your parents. You're not going to be able to cut down NYU's COL estimate much, if at all, even living 30 minutes away with roommates.

100K is a lot of money.

I think I would do GULC.

Sticker plus COL at NYU is so utterly astronomical, I'd have a hard time recommending it to anyone that doesn't have their parents footing the bill.

Honestly, with your LSAT, I really would sit this one out a year and try to work somewhere. Then apply to NU early decision and profit. It may seem painful now to wait a year when you and your family and friends are all geared up to have you start now, but you will thank me in 4 years after I've made you $200,000 richer.

PrideandGlory1776 wrote:Sit out a year and ED Northwestern next year with a 175 you will get a full-ride.

If that's not an option, what else is on the table besides NYU and GULC - anything else?

This is simply untrue. The full ride is not designed for splitters. He would almost certainly get held to RD and offered some small scholly like everyone else with his numbers.

The point of the program is to poach qualified HYSCC applicants, not to give free money to splitters.

Clearly wrote:The point of the program is to poach qualified HYSCC applicants

Sucks to suck, N(YU)