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Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:01 pm
by Estreetshuffler
Thoughts? Won't receive any aid from Stanford. Don't have a specific area of concentration I'm focused on.
I've been extremely debt averse in narrowing down choices so far because I don't want to feel forced to take a job upon graduation based on paying off debt as opposed to interest or personal fit, but... it's Stanford.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:09 pm
by jbagelboy
I would take Stanford over UCLA full ride, to be honest. So that's my vote .
Others may differ. Objectively the more you want a clerkship or biglaw, the more Stanford increases in relative value. For a local public interest gig, might not mean so much.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:09 pm
by jumpin munkey
No money from Boalt or a mid-T14? Between these two there's no way I would choose UCLA. The whole first semester I'd be terrified of ending up at median and thinking that I made the wrong choice. And then there's the good chance you actually end up at median (or even above) and OCI doesn't go so hot. You're still going to be taking out enough loans (I assume) that you can't just cross your fingers and hope for the best. Take the job assurance, more mobile degree, and and more door-opening degree. Go to Stanford.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:21 pm
by Estreetshuffler
Still waiting to hear back from two other T-14s. 45k at Michigan is an option as well.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:23 am
by banjo
Stanford is the easy choice here. Guaranteed V10, great shot at a clerkship and other dream jobs, no real grades, small class size where everyone is generally happy with their job prospects.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:33 am
by MistakenGenius
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Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:36 am
by cotiger
At sticker debt, Stanford would be $310,000 debt at graduation. UCLA with full-ride would be $85,000.
Stanford would come down a little after aid, though you'd still likely be in the upper 200s.
As others have said, there have got to be some better options available to you than these. If forced to choose, I'd hold my nose and take the big debt at SLS.
ETA: Michigan at $45k, fwiw, would be $215,000 debt at graduation. A non-starter. [edited]
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:39 am
by akg144
MistakenGenius wrote:I'm generally pretty debt averse as well. If this were Berkeley or CCN at a full ride, the situation would be much more difficult. As it stands though, there is 0 question in my mind. The right answer is Stanford, no contest. If you're median at UCLA, your job prospects are pretty poor, at Stanford, pretty much everyone does very well. No question, in this case, the debt is worth it. Also, Michigan at 45,000 is nothing compared to Stanford.
+1
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:35 am
by Mack.Hambleton
cotiger wrote:At sticker debt, Stanford would be $310,000 debt at graduation. UCLA with full-ride would be $85,000.
Stanford would come down a little after aid, though you'd still likely be in the upper 200s.
As others have said, there have got to be some better options available to you than these. If forced to choose, I'd hold my nose and take the big debt at SLS.
ETA: Michigan at $45k, fwiw, would be $270,000 debt at graduation. A non-starter.
how are you getting 310k?
even by rounding up tuition, it's about 160k total. So that would leave 50k a year for cost of living/book/etc. Seems a bit high
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:55 am
by SoapyIllusion
0L here but if I had to chime in I would also choose Stanford. More mobility, better chance at big law (if that is what you want) and your mascot is a tree! UCLA full ride is tempting but the job prospects are better coming out of SLS and you wouldn't have to gun for top 25% to have a tiny chance at big law and I find Stanford's grading policy to be quite appealing.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:05 am
by BruinRegents
james.bungles wrote:cotiger wrote:At sticker debt, Stanford would be $310,000 debt at graduation. UCLA with full-ride would be $85,000.
Stanford would come down a little after aid, though you'd still likely be in the upper 200s.
As others have said, there have got to be some better options available to you than these. If forced to choose, I'd hold my nose and take the big debt at SLS.
ETA: Michigan at $45k, fwiw, would be $270,000 debt at graduation. A non-starter.
how are you getting 310k?
even by rounding up tuition, it's about 160k total. So that would leave 50k a year for cost of living/book/etc. Seems a bit high
Because Bay Area.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:09 am
by MistakenGenius
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Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:52 am
by graphia
Estreetshuffler wrote:Thoughts? Won't receive any aid from Stanford. Don't have a specific area of concentration I'm focused on.
I've been extremely debt averse in narrowing down choices so far because I don't want to feel forced to take a job upon graduation based on paying off debt as opposed to interest or personal fit, but... it's Stanford.
I'd pick Stanford without blinking.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:28 am
by Hutz_and_Goodman
I would take UCLA. I know recent Stanford graduate who has been doing doc review for three years and cannot get a job as an attorney. He has $200k+ in debt. Although Stanford is a great school there are people who graduate jobless or with really shit jobs and then there is no way to pay off the massive crippling debt.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:24 am
by cotiger
MistakenGenius wrote:james.bungles wrote:cotiger wrote:At sticker debt, Stanford would be $310,000 debt at graduation. UCLA with full-ride would be $85,000.
Stanford would come down a little after aid, though you'd still likely be in the upper 200s.
As others have said, there have got to be some better options available to you than these. If forced to choose, I'd hold my nose and take the big debt at SLS.
ETA: Michigan at $45k, fwiw, would be $270,000 debt at graduation. A non-starter.
how are you getting 310k?
even by rounding up tuition, it's about 160k total. So that would leave 50k a year for cost of living/book/etc. Seems a bit high
This, confused me a bit too. I'm also curious about the $315,000 Michigan tag. Someone evidently likes living high on the hog.
Oooooops, forgot to add in the scholarship at Michigan
It would be $215,000 debt at grad. Still a no-go.
Stanford, on the other hand.. If you apply a continued 4.46% tuition growth rate (the average of the last five years) and a 2% COL growth rate, and all the interest accrual, you end up with about $310k debt at grad. It's particularly high because of Stanford's listed $29,196 off-campus COL. Which seems really high, but I have heard that bay area prices are NYC level. Which, when I think about my COL in an inexpensive part of Brooklyn+books+SLS's health insurance, actually sounds about right.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:45 am
by francesfarmer
james.bungles wrote:cotiger wrote:At sticker debt, Stanford would be $310,000 debt at graduation. UCLA with full-ride would be $85,000.
Stanford would come down a little after aid, though you'd still likely be in the upper 200s.
As others have said, there have got to be some better options available to you than these. If forced to choose, I'd hold my nose and take the big debt at SLS.
ETA: Michigan at $45k, fwiw, would be $270,000 debt at graduation. A non-starter.
how are you getting 310k?
even by rounding up tuition, it's about 160k total. So that would leave 50k a year for cost of living/book/etc. Seems a bit high
Accruing interest while in school. Check out Georgetown's debt calculator.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:26 am
by jbagelboy
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I would take UCLA. I know recent Stanford graduate who has been doing doc review for three years and cannot get a job as an attorney. He has $200k+ in debt. Although Stanford is a great school there are people who graduate jobless or with really shit jobs and then there is no way to pay off the massive crippling debt.
Okay but there are twenty UCLA grads in this position (maybe a little less debt, but similar prospects) for every one Stanford grad.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:50 am
by Tiago Splitter
MistakenGenius wrote:If this were Berkeley or CCN at a full ride, the situation would be much more difficult.
That really wouldn't be difficult either. The full ride from pretty much any other T-14 would trump Stanford sticker.
In this case I don't think UCLA can offer enough to take you away from Stanford. But keep working those middle options because that's an insane amount of debt.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:15 pm
by MistakenGenius
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Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:24 pm
by Nomo
I think Stanford. But, I agree you should keep working the middle options.
At what price is HYS simply not worth it?
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:39 pm
by TheSpanishMain
I think Stanford is a defensible choice, but not one I'd make. I don't think I'd take any school for 200k in debt, HYS included. That's just me though; I'm debt averse. I would think Berkeley with a sizable scholarship would be the way to go here, assuming it's in play.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:49 pm
by Otunga
MistakenGenius wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:MistakenGenius wrote:If this were Berkeley or CCN at a full ride, the situation would be much more difficult.
That really wouldn't be difficult either. The full ride from pretty much any other T-14 would trump Stanford sticker.
In this case I don't think UCLA can offer enough to take you away from Stanford. But keep working those middle options because that's an insane amount of debt.
I'd take the full ride myself, but it is still a difficult decision for many applicants. Look at how torn TLS is even when it comes to a Ruby or Hamilton vs Harvard and Yale (there's a big thread on that like 4 down the list). Stanford actually has better employment possibilities than Harvard. So, even though you and I would both go the route of money, it's still a difficult decision for most applicants. Also, I'd say it depends on your goals. If OP only wanted Biglaw, then yeah, Cornell or Northwestern on a full ride is competitive with Stanford. If he desperately wants to clerk or do academia, then Stanford gives him like 5x the chance to do so.
I'd have to want to do clerking and/or academia so badly to take on all that debt. If biglaw was at all under consideration and my goals were underdeveloped (as they actually are), the UCLA full is the choice I'd make.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:51 pm
by Nelson
TLS conventional wisdom has finally swung too far in reaction if people are seriously recommending UCLA (without even a full ride) over Stanford. The gap in post-grad options between these schools is staggering. There is no amount of money that would make me take UCLA here.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:00 pm
by cotiger
Nelson wrote:TLS conventional wisdom has finally swung too far in reaction if people are seriously recommending UCLA (without even a full ride) over Stanford. The gap in post-grad options between these schools is staggering. There is no amount of money that would make me take UCLA here.
I'm usually very much for taking the money and running, but I've gotta agree with this.
Though I'm pretty sure it is a full-ride were talking about here.
Re: Stanford vs UCLA (135k)
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:21 pm
by kjones7
I definitely think it depends on where you want to end up. If you are Big Law or bust, then Stanford hands down. If, on the other hand, you see yourself maybe in public interest or a medium firm, then maybe less debt is the way to go.
Stanford is my dream school but even I would have a hard time going at full sticker.