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UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:12 am
by jus2626
To start things off, i know most of you will advice me to retake the LSAT but that is not an option at the time. Money is not a huge factor, but obviously i want to make an economically smart decision. I am stuck between 4 schools, and having seen the new US News ranking I am even more confused on which to pick. I want to practice
real estate law in Los Angeles. Ideally I would practice at a firm for a few years then move onto having my own place. Also want to go into the real estate aspect of law.
Here are my options: (Prices = tuition + housing - scholarships, AKA how much i would be in dept.)
UC Hastings: 127,000
Pepperdine: 136,000
U of A: 47,000
Southwestern Law School: 70,000
Also waitlisted at: UCLA, UCI
Thank you guys. ALSO please do not say retake.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:13 am
by Winston1984
Why can't you retake?
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:17 am
by jus2626
Winston1984 wrote:Why can't you retake?
Many factors but the score i got will be the highest score i will get. I was practicing for months and my score was 5 points higher than my highest practice test.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:22 am
by twenty
For Los Angeles, definitely none of these, even if you'd just won the lottery. At your best choice, Pepperdine, only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all, and of those, only 65% are in California. At the point where you have less than a 30% chance of even
Practicing Law in California, let alone real estate law with a firm in Los Angeles, you have no business going for
free. And to be 136k in debt? That's just absolute madness -- you won't pay off that kind of debt for at least a decade and a half on the salary you'd be pulling in best-case scenario.
I actually wouldn't recommend retaking here, because you're probably maxed out. Instead, I'd recommend not going at all.
EDIT> Also, your Pepperdine and Southwestern scholarships have terrible stipulations on them, and your Hastings one probably does as well.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:32 am
by jus2626
twenty wrote:For Los Angeles, definitely none of these, even if you'd just won the lottery. At your best choice, Pepperdine, only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all, and of those, only 65% are in California. At the point where you have less than a 30% chance of even practicing law in California, let alone real estate law with a firm in Los Angeles, you have no business going for free. And to be 136k in debt? That's just absolute madness -- you won't pay off that kind of debt for at least a decade and a half on the salary you'd be pulling in best-case scenario.
I actually wouldn't recommend retaking here, because you're probably maxed out. Instead, I'd recommend not going at all.
EDIT> Also, your Pepperdine and Southwestern scholarships have terrible stipulations on them, and your Hastings one probably does as well.
All scholarships are guaranteed as long as I am full-time and not on academic probation.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:41 am
by ManoftheHour
What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings anyway.
Bro, just retake. If you refuse to, I'd say put your deposit down at U of A and sign up for the June LSAT like right now and retake (that way, you wouldn't lose a year to retake and you still have the option of better prospects. Low opportunity cost here and a high upside). If you do well, then congrats. Go to UCLA/USC with $$$ next year. If you bomb it, then just go be a wildcat and hopefully end up with a job seeing as it is the school with the best employment stats. If not, at least you won't be in much debt. The other 3 schools are TTTT and are a complete no go unless you're not paying a dime for tuition.
But seriously, given your goals, none of these.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:45 am
by jus2626
ManoftheHour wrote:What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings anyway.
Bro, just retake. If you refuse to, I'd say put your deposit down at U of A and sign up for the June LSAT like right now and retake (that way, you wouldn't lose a year to retake and you still have the option of better prospects. Low opportunity cost here and a high upside). If you do well, then congrats. Go to UCLA/USC with $$$ next year. If you bomb it, then just go be a wildcat and hopefully end up with a job seeing as it is the school with the best employment stats. If not, at least you won't be in much debt. The other 3 schools are TTTT and are a complete no go unless you're not paying a dime for tuition.
But seriously, given your goals, none of these.
Still waiting on USC and UC Davis. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to attempt a June retake.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:47 am
by ManoftheHour
jus2626 wrote:ManoftheHour wrote:What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings anyway.
Bro, just retake. If you refuse to, I'd say put your deposit down at U of A and sign up for the June LSAT like right now and retake (that way, you wouldn't lose a year to retake and you still have the option of better prospects. Low opportunity cost here and a high upside). If you do well, then congrats. Go to UCLA/USC with $$$ next year. If you bomb it, then just go be a wildcat and hopefully end up with a job seeing as it is the school with the best employment stats. If not, at least you won't be in much debt. The other 3 schools are TTTT and are a complete no go unless you're not paying a dime for tuition.
But seriously, given your goals, none of these.
Still waiting on USC and UC Davis. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to attempt a June retake.
Not at all! And you still have the option to take the year off or go to law school this August.
OR you could use your higher score (even if it is only slightly higher) and squeeze money out of the school you deposited at. I'm serious.
It looks like you got decent money at U of A. Since they're essentially tied with Davis in ranking, you could negotiate with them. Davis for cheap isn't the worst idea...even if it is in NorCal and you want to be in LA. At least it's still in CA.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:48 am
by HanShotFirst
ManoftheHour wrote:What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings.
>implying Davis is any less of a TTT than Hastings
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:51 am
by ManoftheHour
HanShotFirst wrote:ManoftheHour wrote:What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings.
>implying Davis is any less of a TTT than Hastings
Not saying it's that much better, but it is still better. When you take out the school funded jobs, it's like 45% full time bar passage rate vs. like 34%. However, Davis is more generous with schollies (at least it was last cycle). Less debt is always good, no?
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:26 am
by jus2626
ManoftheHour wrote:jus2626 wrote:ManoftheHour wrote:What happened to USC or UC Davis? Davis is pretty generous with scholarships. More so than UC HasTTTTings anyway.
Bro, just retake. If you refuse to, I'd say put your deposit down at U of A and sign up for the June LSAT like right now and retake (that way, you wouldn't lose a year to retake and you still have the option of better prospects. Low opportunity cost here and a high upside). If you do well, then congrats. Go to UCLA/USC with $$$ next year. If you bomb it, then just go be a wildcat and hopefully end up with a job seeing as it is the school with the best employment stats. If not, at least you won't be in much debt. The other 3 schools are TTTT and are a complete no go unless you're not paying a dime for tuition.
But seriously, given your goals, none of these.
Still waiting on USC and UC Davis. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to attempt a June retake.
Not at all! And you still have the option to take the year off or go to law school this August.
OR you could use your higher score (even if it is only slightly higher) and squeeze money out of the school you deposited at. I'm serious.
It looks like you got decent money at U of A. Since they're essentially tied with Davis in ranking, you could negotiate with them. Davis for cheap isn't the worst idea...even if it is in NorCal and you want to be in LA. At least it's still in CA.
Do you know how U of A places in SoCal? I know its a good school, but would it get me further than say Pepperdine or Southwestern?>
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:28 am
by BigZuck
If you refuse to retake and want to make an economically prudent decision, then don't go to law school.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:28 am
by HanShotFirst
BigZuck wrote:If you refuse to retake and want to make an economically prudent decision, then don't go to law school.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:44 am
by californiauser
Hastings is dollar for dollar one of the worst value law schools on the planet
the rest are just regular bad, except for Arizona which is fine if you can go for free or very cheap and want to live in AZ for the rest of your career
cr is to retake or pick a new career path
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:11 pm
by ManoftheHour
jus2626 wrote:
Do you know how U of A places in SoCal? I know its a good school, but would it get me further than say Pepperdine or Southwestern?>
It doesn't really place that well into SoCal.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location
I picked U of A not because it's a great choice for you, but because it's the objectively least bad choice. It's the cheapest and it'll likely land you a job if you plan to stay and work in AZ.
Retake >>>>>>>>>>>> U of A >>>>>> Southwestern >> the rest.
FWIW, I took 2 years off after undergrad and took the LSAT 4 times and do not regret it for one second.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:21 pm
by rpupkin
twenty wrote:For Los Angeles, definitely none of these, even if you'd just won the lottery. At your best choice, Pepperdine, only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all, and of those, only 65% are in California. At the point where you have less than a 30% chance of even practicing law in California
Can you walk through your logic a little more? Also, what is the support for your statement that "only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all"?
OP: I don't think you should go to Pepperdine either, but I'm pretty sure a graduate of that school has a better than 30% chance of finding legal employment in California.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:26 pm
by francesfarmer
Taking time off and retaking the LSAT is TCR. All of your options totally suck.
I was considering going to Hastings 3 years ago but instead I got a job and retook the LSAT. (My GPA is mediocre, btw.) I'm going to Columbia in the fall. Don't limit yourself because you don't want to study for a goddam standardized test. That is stupid and short-sighted.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:22 pm
by ManoftheHour
rpupkin wrote:twenty wrote:For Los Angeles, definitely none of these, even if you'd just won the lottery. At your best choice, Pepperdine, only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all, and of those, only 65% are in California. At the point where you have less than a 30% chance of even practicing law in California
Can you walk through your logic a little more? Also, what is the support for your statement that "only 45% of the graduates are even able to get a legal job at all"?
OP: I don't think you should go to Pepperdine either, but I'm pretty sure a graduate of that school has a better than 30% chance of finding legal employment in California.
I think he meant 45% are able to find a
full time bar passaged required job.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=pepperdine
This data is from the ABA and is reported by the school itself.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:39 pm
by twenty
My reasoning is 45% of those individuals found full time bar-required work nine months after graduation, and of those individuals, 65% were working in California.
Even if 100% of the employed class were able to work in Los Angeles, the fact you have less than a coin-flip chance of being employed in a full time job that required bar-passage and are willing to pay well into the six figures for that privilege is insanity.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:53 pm
by Savage13
Decide whether you want to be a lawyer in Arizona or an unemployed, heavily indebted lawyer in LA. It's not really more complicated than that.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:04 pm
by KD35
Davis is terrible about giving out scholly $$$. UC Hastings still has the best reputation among all of those, and U of A is likely not going to help you place in CA because it is already an over-saturated market.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:34 pm
by PepperJack
If you're educated on the market enough to realize most people will tell you to retake, and that these schools give you under a 50/50 shot of even paying back your debt -> you should not be able to pass the bar by attending them.
In all seriousness, what can you be thinking? Most of the people who strike out are not weirdos. In fact, most of them at good schools would be able to earn over 50k in something outside of law as very smart, very personable, very hard working individuals. By attending, they likely have forfeited these opportunities. If you can't turn your BA/BS into a 50k salary, it's naive to think you'll charm your way into a great job or be top 5%.
If your peak LSAT score gets you here, you have to accept that law may not be right for you. The test isn't a perfect correlation to success, but the skills you have to have or acquire in prepping for the test are absolutely useful to law school. Formal logic, assumptions, deductive reasoning, these things are all like nuclear bombs on a test if you can use them the right way. They're the exact type of crap that helps you find forks, and make compelling arguments. A lack of care about acquiring these skills is indicative of someone who would rather put their fingers in their ears and fail than someone who would be willing to hustle and grind.
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:42 pm
by ManoftheHour
KD35 wrote:Davis is terrible about giving out scholly $$$. UC Hastings still has the best reputation among all of those, and U of A is likely not going to help you place in CA because it is already an over-saturated market.
I don't know for sure, but for two cycles straight, Davis has been generous with $$$ for me (and I was at median last year).
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:50 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
jus2626 wrote:please do not say retake.
retake
Re: UC Hastings vs Pepperdine vs U of A vs Southwestern
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:53 pm
by wbrother
james.bungles wrote:jus2626 wrote:please do not say retake.
retake