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Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

bpc2110 wrote:Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south so this is unfortunate)

If you want to practice in NY, Fordham places over 30% of its graduates in NY big law, while Texas places around 5% of its graduates in NY in ANY capacity, and fewer graduates in big law (27%) in general. So if you want NY big law, then you do the math.

You should have a good shot at Cornell, hear anything yet?

That would be your best bet

Nucky wrote:

bpc2110 wrote:Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south)

If you want to practice in NY, Fordham places over 30% of its graduates in NY big law, while Texas places around 5% of its graduates in NY in ANY capacity, and fewer graduates in big law (27%) in general. So if you want NY big law, then you do the math.

Much of this post speculative and fairly inaccurate. UT is certainly more well regarded in law than Emory or notre dame. And the lay person's view of Texas is irrelevant.

Texas at the right price can be a bargain. Top third should give you a shot at NY, from what I can tell. But any T14 would be better.

jbagelboy wrote:

Nucky wrote:

bpc2110 wrote:Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south)

If you want to practice in NY, Fordham places over 30% of its graduates in NY big law, while Texas places around 5% of its graduates in NY in ANY capacity, and fewer graduates in big law (27%) in general. So if you want NY big law, then you do the math.

Much of this post speculative and fairly inaccurate. UT is certainly more well regarded in law than Emory or notre dame. And the lay person's view of Texas is irrelevant.

Texas at the right price can be a bargain. Top third should give you a shot at NY, from what I can tell. But any T14 would be better.

Your post is also fairly speculative and inaccurate. I'm not arguing Emory is a better school, only that an Emory JD is likely to be more portable than a UT JD. Though if one wants to leave Georgia going to Emory isn't the best idea either.

Regardless, OP's question was to choose between the two given his goals. If T14 is an option scrap both immediately, otherwise Fordham is TCR.

Nucky wrote:In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south)

jbagelboy wrote:And the lay person's view of Texas is irrelevant.

Texas at the right price can be a bargain. Top third should give you a shot at NY, from what I can tell. But any T14 would be better.

I'm not even sure Nucky's assumptive lay person's view is even accurate. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I am from NY and I never had that view of Texans.

jbagelboy: Do you think OP would have a better shot at NYC biglaw at UT than Fordham? I don't know, but I imagine Fordham would be better since it's the best NYC school after Columbia and NYU. I know that's not saying a whole lot, but being in NYC has to be better than being in Texas for landing a NYC job, no?

Nucky wrote:

bpc2110 wrote:Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south so this is unfortunate)

If you want to practice in NY, Fordham places over 30% of its graduates in NY big law, while Texas places around 5% of its graduates in NY in ANY capacity, and fewer graduates in big law (27%) in general. So if you want NY big law, then you do the math.

As a UT Law grad practicing in biglaw on the East Coast, I have to disagree somewhat. Biglaw lawyers know UT's reputation, and you will not be out of place in New York or in large cities on the East Coast. UT people greatly self-select into Texas markets, just as Fordham people self-select into NYC. Except in certain regions, UT Law carries much greater weight than WUSTL, Emory, or ND.

However, if you're set on NYC biglaw only, it's not a great idea to go to UT unless you're getting a truly great price. If you can hedge with Texas ties, it's a better bet.

JazzieShizzle wrote:

Nucky wrote:In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south)

jbagelboy wrote:And the lay person's view of Texas is irrelevant.

Texas at the right price can be a bargain. Top third should give you a shot at NY, from what I can tell. But any T14 would be better.

I'm not even sure Nucky's assumptive lay person's view is even accurate. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I am from NY and I never had that view of Texans.

jbagelboy: Do you think OP would have a better shot at NYC biglaw at UT than Fordham? I don't know, but I imagine Fordham would be better since it's the best NYC school after Columbia and NYU. I know that's not saying a whole lot, but being in NYC has to be better than being in Texas for landing a NYC job, no?

Well you can go off your and jbagel's speculative assumptions, or you can go off LST and the data, as I did. I was just injecting the point that outside of the T14 everyone is a regional. If you go to UT, your school spirit may lead you to disagree, but the numbers dont.

Texas with $$ is a good deal --- well no kidding! That isn't what OP was asking and if he is getting significant money at Texas I am sure his Fordham offer isn't too shabby either.

I think UT has a solid amount of prestige nationwide when it comes to big firms. That said, I think you would have to be better than top 1/3 and it doesn't really make sense to target any kind of non-TX big law from UT.

Nucky wrote:

bpc2110 wrote:Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

Although Nucky might be right that you should choose Fordham over UT if you want to work in NYC, I don't agree with the rest of his post. UT has a better national reputation than ND, Emory, Vandy, and WUSTL.

Totally agree with above poster (although I am a 2l hoping to stay in the south). UT's rep is way better than Emory, Wustl, or Notre Dame....which is why we had students transfer to UT this year from those schools. There is a reason it has perpetually been on the fringe of T14 status. The reason is it is almost as good of those schools, but doesnt quite measure up. Also, an above poster noted that UT is only ranked what it is because of its strong legal market, but this analysis fails to take into consideration that UT law has always been highly regarded (11 in the original US News ranking) even when the legal market in Texas was not so strong.

I think it should be pointed out that UT has a residency requirement. 65% of students have to be from TX. 67% of employed grads end up in Texas. So comparing NYC biglaw between UT and Fordham is by no means apples to apples, given that no one should go to Fordham unless they want to practice in NYC, whereas 2/3 people at UT are likely to want to stay in TX.

Nucky wrote:

JazzieShizzle wrote:

Nucky wrote:In fact, people in the north, and other states, see Texans as backward thinking hillbillies and may stereotype you. (disclaimer: I am from the south)

jbagelboy wrote:And the lay person's view of Texas is irrelevant.

Texas at the right price can be a bargain. Top third should give you a shot at NY, from what I can tell. But any T14 would be better.

I'm not even sure Nucky's assumptive lay person's view is even accurate. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I am from NY and I never had that view of Texans.

jbagelboy: Do you think OP would have a better shot at NYC biglaw at UT than Fordham? I don't know, but I imagine Fordham would be better since it's the best NYC school after Columbia and NYU. I know that's not saying a whole lot, but being in NYC has to be better than being in Texas for landing a NYC job, no?

Well you can go off your and jbagel's speculative assumptions, or you can go off LST and the data, as I did. I was just injecting the point that outside of the T14 everyone is a regional. If you go to UT, your school spirit may lead you to disagree, but the numbers dont.

Texas with $$ is a good deal --- well no kidding! That isn't what OP was asking.

How is your pseudo-discourse on American cultural pedigree drawn from "LST and the data"? What LST should tell you is that UT is a shade behind lower T14 in placement with a naturally Texas-heavy emphasis, and a decent cut above Emory/ND/Fordham both regionally and nationally. And I understand it is fun to learn new words, but nothing about either of our posts is speculative.

You're really arguing Emory and WUSTL have greater lay prestige than UT-Austin? That's absurd.

Your generic northerner who went to a decent school knows that UT is a public ivy/has a really strong national reputation. I wouldn't bet that generic northerner even knows Emory exists.

Also, nobody in the north thinks Austin is hillbilly back country. The perception is that it is as an awesome blue oasis surrounded by hillbilly back country.

Aww, you mad bro? I wonder how many people in ITT attend UT... How's that T14 Napoleon complex working out?

I attend UT. Its not really a Napoleon complex so much as dispelling your blatantly wrong assertions. As I said above, UT is a bit below the T14, but its well above what you perceive it to be. Just give it its fair due and don't mislead people. UT is a strong school with some national pull.

Will_McAvoy wrote:You're really arguing Emory and WUSTL have greater lay prestige than UT-Austin? That's absurd.

Your generic northerner who went to a decent school knows that UT is a public ivy/has a really strong national reputation. I wouldn't bet that generic northerner even knows Emory exists.

You guys have really picked up that line and ran with it. I was only pointing out the possibility due to what I have heard from TX attorneys/graduates trying to leave the state, and from some people up north who I have spoken with that did not know I was from the south. I did not try to quantify that fact with data as bagel suggests, or even treat is as an unequivocal fact.

As for the comparison to the other schools, Fordham does place better in biglaw than UT, and obviously in NY, and though I have not looked at the numbers recently I remember seeing data which reflected that schools like ND, WUSTL, etc did place more of their graduates OOS in far reaching places, like CA, than UT does. Is it self-selection? Is it prestige? I dont know, but the numbers are what they are.

Take a tissue 'Horns, geez. This isn't about UT's prestige, or your 'issues', this is about Fordham v UT for NYC big law.

timmyd wrote:I attend UT. Its not really a Napoleon complex so much as dispelling your blatantly wrong assertions. As I said above, UT is a bit below the T14, but its well above what you perceive it to be. Just give it its fair due and don't mislead people. UT is a strong school with some national pull.

I never said it wasn't. UT is a wonderful school.

I'd be wary of paying good money at any school that doesn't get strong OCI representation from my target market. I don't know if a lot of NYC offices go to UT's OCI but it's definitely something to look into.

As for Fordham, it seems to never offer enough money to be worthwhile.

Nucky wrote:Aww, you mad bro? I wonder how many people in ITT attend UT... How's that T14 Napoleon complex working out?

I take it you're mad about not getting in to UT?

Will_McAvoy wrote:

Nucky wrote:Aww, you mad bro? I wonder how many people in ITT attend UT... How's that T14 Napoleon complex working out?

I take it you're mad about not getting in to UT?

Not at all. No interest in Texas. Lived there before, and never again. Good place to work, shit place to live.

If it makes you feel better, I wouldn't have gotten in though. Had a bit too much fun my first few years in UG and ruined my GPA.

Nucky wrote:Aww, you mad bro? I wonder how many people in ITT attend UT... How's that T14 Napoleon complex working out?

sounds like ur the mad one bro lol

james.bungles wrote:

Nucky wrote:Aww, you mad bro? I wonder how many people in ITT attend UT... How's that T14 Napoleon complex working out?

sounds like ur the mad one bro lol

Nah man, this is an online message board. Anyone who gets upset over this needs therapy

Don't worry, be happy --- even if you go to UT, or have a bad GPA.

Tiago Splitter wrote:I don't know if a lot of NYC offices go to UT's OCI but it's definitely something to look into.

As I recall, all the main NYC firms do OCI at Texas, and Texas also holds an OCI-style interview day in NYC to which many preftigious firms send interviewers. Be prepared for many "why NYC" questions, though.

Nucky wrote:
Not at all. No interest in Texas. Lived there before, and never again. Good place to work, shit place to live.

Can I ask where you lived in Texas? I've heard only positive things about Austin (less traffic), pretty good stuff about San Antonio and Dallas, and shit about Houston and everywhere else.

Nucky wrote: If it makes you feel better, I wouldn't have gotten in though. Had a bit too much fun my first few years in UG and ruined my GPA.

That'll happen. Same deal here on UG. Sorry for the low blow, but it seemed like you were trying to be a douche. I don't think many would disagree that, if you were getting a very large finaid package from Fordham, that it wouldn't be a better option for OP's goals. (Though, Cornell, maybe even at sticker (depending on Fordham $) would be a better option.)